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craethke Profile
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EX95

Registered: 09-2011
Posts: 686
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Re: 99% Bulls


The 3 bulls I mentioned have generated 10's of millions of dollars for their owners through hundred's of thousands of dtrs. All 3 have had, and will continue to influence the breed going forward. Red Marker, Linjet, et al. will have virtually no influence at all, in all honesty just a footnote in the history of the breed through a few show winning dtrs. Not because I want it to be that way, but history has shown that Freddie, Ramos, Jocko... have produced the kind of cows that are profitable and easy to work with, and the others have not. It's really that simple. The Holstein breed is always changing and adapting, we've already seen the rise in crossbreeding and Jersey numbers for a very simple reason. Profit and less health problems, herdlife increase,etc.. If the Holstein breed didn't evolve in that direction, it would lose it's credibility very quickly. You can insult the bulls I talked about Caviar, and truly it's not personal, but the market does decide based on the commercial guys buying semen for the most part.
14/9/2014, 16:37 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
nearlyolddave Profile
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VG86

Registered: 06-2013
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Re: 99% Bulls


quote:

craethke wrote:

The 3 bulls I mentioned have generated 10's of millions of dollars for their owners through hundred's of thousands of dtrs. All 3 have had, and will continue to influence the breed going forward. Red Marker, Linjet, et al. will have virtually no influence at all, in all honesty just a footnote in the history of the breed through a few show winning dtrs. Not because I want it to be that way, but history has shown that Freddie, Ramos, Jocko... have produced the kind of cows that are profitable and easy to work with, and the others have not. It's really that simple. The Holstein breed is always changing and adapting, we've already seen the rise in crossbreeding and Jersey numbers for a very simple reason. Profit and less health problems, herdlife increase,etc.. If the Holstein breed didn't evolve in that direction, it would lose it's credibility very quickly. You can insult the bulls I talked about Caviar, and truly it's not personal, but the market does decide based on the commercial guys buying semen for the most part.


I naturally agree with craethke, but sometimes things are not so simple.
Ramos is a bull I like many missed, but Jocko?

Both were born in the '90's
today Ramos has a PLI of £463
   and is +0.7pl ,+13.7fi and -24 scc
today Jocko has a PLI of£31
and is -0.3pl -6.2 fi and +11 scc
If you bred for type you may have used Mr Sam
today he is +0.1pl -8.5fi and 0 scc
Not a total diaster even if the misirable things put me off breeding for type.
14/9/2014, 21:09 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
craethke Profile
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EX95

Registered: 09-2011
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Re: 99% Bulls


I simply picked a bull that had massive numbers of dtrs that was popular in Europe. I assumed the dtrs were well liked, because any bull with 100,000 + milking dtrs had usage for a long time. Maybe not the best choice on my part, his sons dominated the lists several years ago, and his SCC was always on the high side. I know he was a commercial bull, didn't make show winners for sure.
15/9/2014, 0:12 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
bazza20 Profile
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Ex 97 2E

Registered: 07-2009
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Re:


Jocko was a great bull, no doubting that. Massive protein production. Big money making cows. I think is still up high on aussie index and sons have done well.
15/9/2014, 1:11 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
KINGMAMBO Profile
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Ex97
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Registered: 07-2012
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Re: 99% Bulls


What about these bulls that contain Jocko

Foxberry JS Mcfly

A Jet Stream son that has lots of width and stature a perfect bull to keep the strength and stature while adding health traits and potentially dropping the inbreeding as well breed him to Glauco daughters.

http://www.cdn.ca/query/detail_ge.php?breed=HO&country=USA&sex=M&regnum=138886772

Extreme

A bull that has a super type proof being a Sanchez x Goldwyn x Jocko from breeding that would not suggest great type further back but he looks useful he is from Sersia.

http://www.cdn.ca/query/detail_ge.php?breed=HO&sex=M&country=FRA&regnum=6950558548

http://www.sersia.fr/en/index-lait/fiche.php?id=6950558548

Last edited by KINGMAMBO, 15/9/2014, 1:53
15/9/2014, 1:48 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
Craigalea Profile
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Administrator

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Re: Re:


quote:

bazza20 wrote:

Jocko was a great bull, no doubting that. Massive protein production. Big money making cows. I think is still up high on aussie index and sons have done well.



Jocko will have his impact, some daughter numbers

FRA 123180
NLD 10425
ESP 7199

2535 daughters so far here. 1333L with break even % on protein means they will be making enough money for their owners too. Cell count and dtr fert isn't too flash - likely put too much into milk and none kept for body maint. Survival is still above average here. Dead even calving ease and not too many nasty type traits.

I have no problem with Jocko, he's a good bull.

---
Cattle art and bad cow puns: http://sketch-a-bull.tumblr.com/
15/9/2014, 6:07 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
smous Profile
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Registered: 11-2003
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Re:


What are the thoughts on these in calf heifers photographed last week, they are sired by a Jocko son?

Image

Image

Image

---
WWS-SA
15/9/2014, 6:39 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
errolston Profile
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Ex 97 2E

Registered: 07-2003
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Re: 99% Bulls


Jocko was not a good bull. Old fashioned high production index bull with terrible type, fore udders were terrible, and poor health traits. His sons are all average to poor. There were hundreds tested in Europe and I challenge you to find a good one. Jose was ok, after that it is a struggle.
15/9/2014, 10:19 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
bazza20 Profile
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Ex 97 2E

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Re:


We are milking a heap of very good jardins and jet streams.
15/9/2014, 10:57 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
errolston Profile
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Ex 97 2E

Registered: 07-2003
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Re: 99% Bulls


Jardin's UK proof is 0 for lifespan, 8 (which is about equivalent to 3.1 on US base) for SCC and -4.2 (equivalent to -1 US base) for fertility.

Jet Stream's cell count is 13 in the UK, equivalent to about 3.2 in the US.

I wouldn't rush to use either bull.
15/9/2014, 12:20 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 


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