Eryl Vet
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Re: Breeding an Oman daughter
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errolston wrote:
In 9 months time the beef price might be low and the milk price high!
Not to be too pessimistic but the odds are that both will be low 
The magic cross for many in the past was Goldwyn on Oman, but that worked best when the Omans had plenty of strength and width.
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10/12/2015, 17:47
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bazza20
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Re:
Why stuff up Oman genetics with a Goldwyn. All you are doing is diluting down the money making traits that make Oman good. It was never the golden cross.
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10/12/2015, 18:22
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dgoodrh
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Re:
I wish I could of used oman now I was not smart enough when oman was out I listened to all the big Holstein guys telling me what a bad bull he was. If I had used him maybe I would not be breeding most of my Holsteins to fleckvieh. Goldwyn and Durham sons are two bull lines I wish I never would of never seen. Lucky I was now smart enough to stay away from using much goldwyn. The ones I have are disasters in the freestalls. Actually the perfect place for Belgian blue would be on Facebook daughters, mine were so frail and angular and light bone in the legs. I want cows that are average size or small and built like tanks. They seem to do the best in my barn and last a long time. I am thinking about using a bull called Juno which is a Oman son from Holland.
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10/12/2015, 18:29
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bazza20
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Re: Re:
quote:
dgoodrh wrote:
I wish I could of used oman now I was not smart enough when oman was out I listened to all the big Holstein guys telling me what a bad bull he was. If I had used him maybe I would not be breeding most of my Holsteins to fleckvieh. Goldwyn and Durham sons are two bull lines I wish I never would of never seen. Lucky I was now smart enough to stay away from using much goldwyn. The ones I have are disasters in the freestalls. Actually the perfect place for Belgian blue would be on Facebook daughters, mine were so frail and angular and light bone in the legs. I want cows that are average size or small and built like tanks. They seem to do the best in my barn and last a long time. I am thinking about using a bull called Juno which is a Oman son from Holland.
You are not the only one. I got talked out of using him early when i could have got semen cheap. Same reasons, ugly, will blow udders, can't breed for daughter fertility. I did get some later and their predictions were all wrong.
I did mean I could use plenty of Oman sons at least to make up for lost time.
Oman changed the thinking of the breed about health traits. It's a shame the Holstein breed is creaping back to its old ways.
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10/12/2015, 18:40
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holsteincows
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Re: Re:
here the same as dgoodrh. didn´t use O-Man but am using some O-Man sons and those cows do great in our barn.
Have Juno calves. They drink a lot and grow fast
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10/12/2015, 22:17
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holsteincows
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Re: Breeding an Oman daughter
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I have three Oman's milking. I used him very late.
What bulls do people breed their Oman daughters to? It can be pretty hard to find a genomic bull with no Oman in his pedigree. My Omans are ok for type, but their udders are their poorest trait.
I am concerned that using bulls with Oman blood in them that I will exacerbate their existing fault. Their udders are all fairly poor for udder texture, udder shape and height and width of rear udder attachment.
Although many genomic bulls have great linears I can't help thinking that intensifying the Oman blood will only bring out the best and worst of Omans traits!
Most O-Man daugthers need quality 1 (dairy) 5 (smooth) and 6 (style).
maybe Lonar (laudan x design) or sequoia (boliver x ramos)
I think Aerostar-blood works great on O-Man blood
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10/12/2015, 22:26
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Over the hill
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I always noticed that the majority of people who don't like Oman never actually milked any daughters of the bull, perhaps if they had they would have a different opinion. I used to always breed for type but eventually got fed up with cows that were getting too tall and had poor fertility, then we used Oman and a lot of his sons and guess what we still have good type, not show type but proper type. Medium size, more strength, stronger bone, really good udders good locommotion and a big improvement in fertility. I think we need to be careful not to go over board on strength but anyone who thinks we can improve the breed by breeding only for show type should maybe take another look at their breeding policy.
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14/12/2015, 22:08
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errolston
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Re: Breeding an Oman daughter
quote:
Eryl Vet wrote:
quote:
errolston wrote:
In 9 months time the beef price might be low and the milk price high!
Not to be too pessimistic but the odds are that both will be low
The magic cross for many in the past was Goldwyn on Oman, but that worked best when the Omans had plenty of strength and width.
Eryl, I fear your market outlook prediction will be accurate. The only glimmer of hope for me is that the "experts" that were telling us little over 18 months ago that there was almost infinite global demand for dairy are now telling us that the current downturn will continue into 2017. That's got to mean we are nearing a turning point!!
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15/12/2015, 10:44
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errolston
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Re: Re:
quote:
Over the hill wrote:
I always noticed that the majority of people who don't like Oman never actually milked any daughters of the bull, perhaps if they had they would have a different opinion. I used to always breed for type but eventually got fed up with cows that were getting too tall and had poor fertility, then we used Oman and a lot of his sons and guess what we still have good type, not show type but proper type. Medium size, more strength, stronger bone, really good udders good locommotion and a big improvement in fertility. I think we need to be careful not to go over board on strength but anyone who thinks we can improve the breed by breeding only for show type should maybe take another look at their breeding policy.
OTH, my Omans are definitely the poorest group by type in my herd. They accurately follow his proof, great strength, hard tops, very good feet and legs but poorly shaped udders with poor udder texture and low , narrowish rear udders. The udders are shallow though and functional although not pretty.
The type from his sons is a huge step forward. The Iota and Milo daughters I milk have really great type. Both bulls transmit much more desirable udders than their father.
Interestingly, for me at least, Oman's lifespan score in the UK is no better than Shottle or Goldwyn.
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15/12/2015, 10:50
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mckeague
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Re:
that is interesting errolston, though I would like to know the reasons for daughters of each bull leaving/staying in herds?
At a guess Goldwyn was used in type/show orientated herds and generally (but not in all) they allow their cows more leeway when it comes to fertility
We don't have any Goldwyns but used a few sons without much success, too tall too frail no fight in them, we have one Shottle, just calved her 5th back in November although we did accept a slip in her calving interval (won't happen again), EX cow but producing white water.
Unfortunately we only have three Omans, all high VG all very fertile, no fuss cows, used lots of Oman sons with Legend being the standout but all have produced solid trouble free cows.
We breed our Omans and his grandsons to whatever bulls we find with high milk solids and high fertility - this is what pays
Type does not put one more Euro in our pockets, it actually removes them with the cost of classification
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Reproduction drives production
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15/12/2015, 11:32
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