bazza20
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Re: No-Fla interview in HI
quote:
Polytechnic Imperial Knight wrote:
I couldn't bring myself to read that interview-
It's quite strange that you couldn't bring yourself to read the article and even stranger that you would voluntarily admit that.
Last edited by bazza20, 8/10/2016, 19:31
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8/10/2016, 19:29
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combaning
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Re: Re:
quote:
smous wrote:
Why am I not surprised.
Dad probably said it was BS and that's gospel.
One day you will need to be your own man/woman PIK.
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23/11/2016, 2:52
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Polytechnic Imperial Knight
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Re: No-Fla interview in HI
Yes, way to judge someone without even knowing them combaning.
I've been meaning to reply here for at least 6 months but for some reason it just never happened.
Anyway,
Yes I skimmed through the article and read the important point Bennick was trying to put across, but that's precisely why I didn't read the rest of it-
Look I get it, I didn't really when I first came here to Cowtalk but thanks to the conversations I have had with you guys my breeding goals have changed somewhat and I now pay more attention to fitness traits when selecting bulls than I did back then. However, the kind of attitude that the North Florida farmer has in which he sees himself as right and everyone else as wrong isn't helping anyone.
Besides, I'm not interested in breeding from high end genomic bulls that will be irrelevant in 6 months or so when his half-brother comes along and has 20 points higher GTPI than him. I use genomic bulls every now and then, but I prefer to breed nowadays for outcross because I am scared shitless at the direction the breed is going with inbreeding and how very few people are wanting to change the direction of the airplane that is about to crash into the mountain.
Last edited by Polytechnic Imperial Knight, 31/3/2017, 15:07
---
Farming is fun. Or at least it should be
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31/3/2017, 15:05
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bazza20
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Re: No-Fla interview in HI
quote:
Polytechnic Imperial Knight wrote:
Yes, way to judge someone without even knowing them combaning.
I've been meaning to reply here for at least 6 months but for some reason it just never happened.
Anyway,
Yes I skimmed through the article and read the important point Bennick was trying to put across, but that's precisely why I didn't read the rest of it-
Look I get it, I didn't really when I first came here to Cowtalk but thanks to the conversations I have had with you guys my breeding goals have changed somewhat and I now pay more attention to fitness traits when selecting bulls than I did back then. However, the kind of attitude that the North Florida farmer has in which he sees himself as right and everyone else as wrong isn't helping anyone.
Besides, I'm not interested in breeding from high end genomic bulls that will be irrelevant in 6 months or so when his half-brother comes along and has 20 points higher GTPI than him. I use genomic bulls every now and then, but I prefer to breed nowadays for outcross because I am scared shitless at the direction the breed is going with inbreeding and how very few people are wanting to change the direction of the airplane that is about to crash into the mountain.
Bit like 10 years ago how the type breeders said Oman was going to kill the breed.
Or that health trait breeding was a waste of time and was going to destroy progress of the breed.
But the breed has never been better.
With genomic bulls only lasting as a sire of sons for 6 months there is more variation in pedigrees now than previously.
If type and pedigree breeders were steering the plane
We would have been left with a tall angular cow that needed to be flushed to have any chance of passing her genetics on because no one could get them pregnant.
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2/4/2017, 20:21
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errolston
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Re: No-Fla interview in HI
PiK, if you look hard enough there are plenty of bulls with some variation in their pedigree.
Have you tried any of these bulls:
Monument Impression
Bertaiola Mincio
Campogallo Zamagni
Bazza, what bulls are impressing you at the moment?
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3/4/2017, 12:11
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blackandwhite89
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Re:
I disagree on the comment stating: since genomic bulls are only used as a sire of sons for 6 months, there is more variation in pedigrees
I disagree wholeheartedly. The breed is still on the bath to genetic catastrophe as it was 10 - 20 years ago. Even though genomic bulls have quick stints as sire of sons; we are still seeing a massive influx of the same genetics in this new race we are in.
I hope to see a revival in the breed in the coming years. Type breeders are stuck with Goldwyn blood doubled over and the commercial lineups, genomic or otherwise, are floating down the same river.
I have heard good things about Impression
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3/4/2017, 20:47
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Charles4982
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Re:
The argument of the lack of diversity in genomics bulls pedigree always makes me laugh...
Plenty of very good bulls with different pedigree are available , Outcross to general population.. All of them ranking over 800 NM$
WestCoast Scorpion : Muscadet (mogul x Jeeves) x Oak (Niagra x Leif) x Bookem
Fairmont Bayont Rockstar : Bayonet (Donatello x Shamrock) x Moonboy (dorcy x Shottle) x Sharky
Progenesis Fortune : Octoberfest (Oak x Dorcy) x Tango (Hill x Colby) x Epic
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3/4/2017, 23:43
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Arpagon
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Re: No-Fla interview in HI
I can not say that Monument Impression
Bertaiola Mincio
Campogallo Zamagni
are outcross bulls. If you would like to use outcross bulls you have to select for example some Scandinavian bulls. Bulls from Italy are higly related to the North American pedigrees.
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www.genofond.cz
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4/4/2017, 6:19
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blackandwhite89
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Re:
Charles
The bulls you provided might be outcross on type herds but not for the regular commercial breeder, not at all.
Just going down your list:
FORTUNE: Enough shottle and outside/bolivar in this pedigree? His sire Octoberfest, is by Altaoak who's third sire is Shottle. Tango is by Hill who is a Shottle son and Tango is out of a Colby (More outside blood!) 3rd dam behind tango is a Boliver daughter (more outside!) Genervations Epic, the third sire behind Fortune, is a Super x Baxter x Shottle. Super was a Boliver (More outside!) x Oman. Epics third dam is by Oman and out of an Mtoto (which there is also plenty of both of these bulls in the pedigree). So we have inbreeding % on Shottle, Outside, Boliver, Mtoto, Oman. Unless you would be planning to use this bull on a show cow by Goldwyn (with zero shottle and outside in the pedigree), he would be far from an outcross on the industry
WestCoast Scorpion: Again; outcross is in the eye of the beholder here. His sire, while not a household name is a Mogul x Jeeves x Shottle x BW Marshall (Here come Shottle and Outside once again!). Mogul is a Dorcy x Marsh x Oman and Dorcy received a lot of use as a commercial herd sire as he was both high genomics and had a great proof as a proven sire. I am a type person but I can say I do admire Dorcy and Mogul as sires. Dorcy is a Bolton son and Bolton received a lot of worldwide use in his hey day as a sire of sons and as a commercial-use sire.
Scorpion's dam is by AltaOak. Alta Oak is a Niagra x Leif x Shottle. Leif being about the only thing outcross here. Niagra was a Boliver (Outside!) son.
Scorpion's second dam is by Bookem. Bookem was widely used because of his genomics and there are a lot of bulls out there with him in the pedigree. Bookem was a PLanet x Ramos. Planet, again, a bull who received extreme use across the commercial industry, I would be wary mating Scorpion to anything with Planet close in the pedigree as planet's leg quality was always shifty.
Scorpion's third dam is by Oman who needs not explanation on his influence on the commercial industry; it is flooded with Oman blood
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4/4/2017, 14:24
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blackandwhite89
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Re:
Fairmont Bayonet Rockstar : Bayonet is his sire who is a Donatello x Shamrock x Shottle x OMAN. Donatello being a Robust x Planet son. Shamrock is a Planet x Shottle son. So we have 2 doses of Shottle and 2 doses of Planet right off the bat.
Rockstar's dam is a Moonboy (Dorcy x Shottle x Oman). Here we have another dose of Shottle and Oman
Next sire in line in ROckstar's pedigree is Sharky who is very outcross in in this pedigree; its just a shame he's far back.
When mating in a commercial herd that is already riddled with Oman, Shottle, Planet, and Robust; Rockstar doesn't exactly shake out as an outcross sire when digging into his pedigree behind the sire names
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4/4/2017, 14:32
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