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EX95
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A case of not what if... but WHEN


Will,
     I find it interesting that a European is gonna open this debate. You have the most closed markets in the world, we(the US) basically can't send milk, beef or grain in your general direction due to some fearmongering that BST or GMO corn is gonna cause Jordan, Victoria Beckham or Madonna to need more plastic surgery. Do you really want to open your markets? The United States can produce a lot more milk than it currently is, even at a loss we don't have to make it forever just longer than the rest of the World. Once a country kills off its dairy infrastructure due to open world markets it will take years to rebuild, giving the longest survivor an effective monopoly and freedom to price set in the long run.

I am often baffled at people thinking they have a God given right( free trade is supposed to be mutually beneficial) to send their products into other nations. The united states was an asshole for closing the borders to Canadian cattle,"we ruined their life" blah, blah,blah, even though keeping it open meant ruining the markets for milk and beef in this country. The victim in that was the Canadian farmer becasue their government and the feed companies(greed) got them there. The mad cow diasaster is gonna spring up again here with the border opening,(before milking cows on my own, I worked for a feed company, during my time there an audit of 30 odd canadian feed mills took place, 75% were using banned ingredients almost 5 years after they were banned and not one had been cited by the Canadian government).

Not to single out Canada(and I have the utmost respect for Kristin1 and Canuk etc, I really don't want to start a pissing match here) just have more experience on that one. New Zealand is another one, we don't need their product, and a tiny little islands with a population of less than 4 million isn't gonna buy enough of anything else to worry about losing their business yet our free trade policies allow them to dump tons of product that gets mislabeled and duped on our consumers and we got nothing in return.

Free trade is a good thing, but in terms of self-security for any nation food probally needs to be exempt, or at least partially protected so in the long run when all the milk, beef and grain production moves to south america and china that don't have to follow human rights standards, food sanitation standards or anything else that adds to cost of production. Then they will be like OPEC and able to hold us all hostage(extreme example I know).
18/1/2007, 17:49 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Re: A case of not what if... but WHEN


Good points,well made.

---
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18/1/2007, 22:25 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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EX95
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Re: A case of not what if... but WHEN


Afraid with CAP farmers have just been pushed about & toyed with as "pawns". Keep changing their minds-be more efficient, then less intensive..! Theres enough money to go around if either A. food prices go up B. supermarkets dont take such a huge whack!!!
19/1/2007, 0:46 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Re: A case of not what if... but WHEN


I have kind of lost track over the last couple of months over what is going on with the WTO. Have they made a final decision yet or are they still discussing things?

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19/1/2007, 14:57 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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A case of not what if... but WHEN


Very well said Triday. (1 Karma point for you!)I think you have spoken on behalf of many dairymen I know who are sick of hearing how the US government has ruined the Canadian dairyman. Canada has had the best of both worlds, a quota system plus and outlet for their excess cattle. Now that the Canadians are forced to work in a closed system, they are forced to become more efficient. I do not wish anyone financial stress, but the US dairyman has taken a hit from their past benefits. I hope the border never opens for cattle. I am afraid it will drive our cattle and milk prices even lower than the depleted price we are getting now.
21/1/2007, 5:19 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Re: A case of not what if... but WHEN


There are more fresh heifers in WI in 1 year than all of Canada, so how can this have any cause for your price of heifers? Always wonder why you need any Canadian heifers in the first place, why on earth can`t the U.S provide enough for themselves? I`m all for keeping the boarder closed on milk products as well as we stand to benefit the most by that. What NY over produces would more than flood our market most years.
When the farmer here gets 60% of the consumer doller for dairy products, and the U.S dairy farmer only gets 20% who is to blame???? Come on our processers still make a profit, and their CEO`s still make six figure wages. I really do not know why you don`t get paid more for your dairy products, but OUR quota system is not to blame.
21/1/2007, 16:02 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Re: A case of not what if... but WHEN


Triday,I have a hard time seeing any kind of a, [sign in to see URL],OPEC type of a agricultural cartel forming in the next 50 -80 yrs. for the simple reason that eastern europe,Ukraine, Russia -Siberia are virtually unexploited and are far below their potential for world food production.
  Another reason I dont see this happening is that I think relatively high oil prices are here to stay and with that comes the silver lining of viable alternative fuels such as bio-diesel and [sign in to see URL] US ,Brazil and Europe are comiitting quite a bit of acreage to these ends for domestic use already and if the trend continues a lot of crop land that was previously in competition with another countries could instead compete with OPEC.

I do agree with you that it´s in everybody´s best intersts to, as you said "partially protect" every nations ability to produce [sign in to see URL] how do you do that with out creating "corporate welfare" or subsidising poor efficiency and incompetence?

Subsidies,Tariffs and Trade barriers once in a while help some fledgling industry to get going ,or can help protect for a time a national industry in need of [sign in to see URL] generally I think those tariffs and subsidies dont pay off so well for the public good and wind up hitting the consumer at the cash register and coming out of the tax payers wallet at tax time and become a weight on a nations economy.
24/1/2007, 0:18 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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A case of not what if... but WHEN


all I want is a price for my milk that will cover the cost of production (including farm repayments )and have a bit left over so I can have a nice holiday each year and go and buy a pair of levis (or go out for tea)without wondering what Im going to go without of to cover the cost of them.
I dont mind the long hours but I do mind working for nothing while other people APPEAR to have a surplus of money without having to put in the hours we do and YES I do realise life is about choices and I have made mine HOWEVER....
I object to being a 3rd world citizen in a first world country so that other people can have the cleanest, greenest food in the world at such low cost.
25/1/2007, 2:41 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Ex97
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Re: A case of not what if... but WHEN


Same here - I would still like to know how the CEO`s of major processers in the U.S can make 6 figue saleries, and tell the farmer they can only pay $13(or less) for their milk, that is nothing short of crimminal.
25/1/2007, 16:16 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Re: A case of not what if... but WHEN


quote:

foxleigh wrote:

all I want is a price for my milk that will cover the cost of production (including farm repayments )and have a bit left over so I can have a nice holiday each year and go and buy a pair of levis (or go out for tea)without wondering what Im going to go without of to cover the cost of them.
I dont mind the long hours but I do mind working for nothing while other people APPEAR to have a surplus of money without having to put in the hours we do and YES I do realise life is about choices and I have made mine HOWEVER....
I object to being a 3rd world citizen in a first world country so that other people can have the cleanest, greenest food in the world at such low cost.



That is so well said!
25/1/2007, 18:36 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 


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