BUEHNEDAIRYFARM
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Re: Montbeliarde
Nice choice of bulls Jonny. The Montbeliarde bulls we plan on using are Masolino, Ugostar, Urbaniste, Triomphe, and maybe some more Rapallo.
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31/7/2010, 3:07
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PADairymen
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Registered: 12-2009
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Re: Montbeliarde
quote: Try SIR or REDON from Coopex = sure to improve any holstein
Or sure to ruin a Holstein.
Seems odd to me that some people that crossbred, love to run down the Holstein breed, but still use Holstein. (Note: I said some people, not all)
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31/7/2010, 16:46
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JonnyLungs
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Re: Montbeliarde
quote: PADairymen wrote:
quote: Try SIR or REDON from Coopex = sure to improve any holstein
Or sure to ruin a Holstein.
Seems odd to me that some people that crossbred, love to run down the Holstein breed, but still use Holstein. (Note: I said some people, not all)
It may sound like crossbreeders run down Holsteins but the fact of the matter is it's more or less acknowledging faults.
From ni monty's point of view, Redon WILL certainly improve a Holstein. But from a PAD point of view, it'd be sure to ruin a Holstein.
I can understand the attitude that crossbreeders may sound as if they are running down the Holstein. But the fact remains that the Holstein breed is not without holes. No breed is without holes (though I'd argue SRB is about as close as it gets!) and when we crossbreed we have to acknowledge them holes and breed accordingly.
I know the initial reaction for a Holstein breeder would be to take offense to something like ni monty said but you have to remember that we are all coming at this from a different perspective.
It's never a one size fits all situation in breeding dairy cattle.
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31/7/2010, 18:13
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Gerbrich
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Re: Montbeliarde
How's the temperament on your Plumitif daughters Jonny?
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31/7/2010, 18:35
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JonnyLungs
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Re: Montbeliarde
quote: Gerbrich wrote:
How's the temperament on your Plumitif daughters Jonny?
They are crazy wild. Not mean, but very, very wild. I don't mind it, but others would absolutely hate them.
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31/7/2010, 18:44
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PADairymen
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Re: Montbeliarde
Well my first part - sure to ruin a Holstein was just being more of a joke, I wasn't really saying it would ruin a holstein, I acknowledge the breed has lost some of its rugged-ness is what I will call it.
However, milk a herd of pure Monty's and compare it to a herd of Pure-Holstein, then tell me what to breed for. Mixed together, they are fine, Holsteins on their own can be fine as well (as noted by the huge number of Holsteins in the US and the fact that most commercial herds are still by far a majority of Holstein blood), but can Monty's stand alone? Or do they rely off of the production genetics in the Holstein breed? I don't know the answer, but I've never seen a herd of pure Monty's.
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31/7/2010, 19:17
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JonnyLungs
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Re: Montbeliarde
Probably best to ask the folks in France that milk pure Montys. I'd imagine they stand quite well on their own otherwise there wouldn't be any.
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31/7/2010, 19:59
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foxleigh
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Re: Montbeliarde
quote: JonnyLungs wrote:
quote: Gerbrich wrote:
How's the temperament on your Plumitif daughters Jonny?
They are crazy wild. Not mean, but very, very wild. I don't mind it, but others would absolutely hate them.
some how the french dont seem to pay much attention to temprement.Well perhaps they do with their holsteins but some of the other breeds had a reputation.....personal experiance with french limosin and french fleckvieh(as opposed to montbelaird) has shown many to be wild.So much so that as long ago as 20 years people steered clear of french bloodlines both here and in canada.So no Im not surprised at all.
I would also add that haveing done holstein x simmental as bull beef that there is an exceptionally mean dangerous streak that seems to be hormone driven in some animals and make no bones about it they will KILL you any chance they get.
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31/7/2010, 22:30
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PADairymen
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Re: Montbeliarde
If they were so profitable, why doesn't everyone use them? Not that I have anything against them really. But they don't even account for more cow numbers than Ayrshires or Guernsey's or Brown Swiss in the US. And I am referring to pure Monty's.
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1/8/2010, 0:06
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JonnyLungs
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Re: Montbeliarde
quote: PADairymen wrote:
If they were so profitable, why doesn't everyone use them? Not that I have anything against them really. But they don't even account for more cow numbers than Ayrshires or Guernsey's or Brown Swiss in the US. And I am referring to pure Monty's.
If Holsteins are perfect, why are there any other breeds at all? The thing with the Montbeliarde is that you are pretty much turning upside down what you think a dairy cow ought to look like. When certain characteristics of a cow are taken as gospel for decades, it's not going to change overnight. How long has Montbeliarde been used in the United States? In the grand scheme of things, especially in population genetics, it's been minuscule in terms of time. Now I'm not saying Montys are going to be passing Holsteins here in the States anytime soon and they may not take hold at all.
I think it's fairly obvious why there aren't many (if any at all) purebred Montbeliardes in the United States. As for worldwide numbers, you are flat out wrong as Montbeliarde dwarfs Ayrshire and Guernsey.
http://genex.crinet.com/page416/diamsDairyCrossbreedingFactSheet
I think my overall point is that just because we've always done something a certain way doesn't mean that it's right for everybody. Just because everybody else does something a certain way doesn't mean that is right for me.
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1/8/2010, 0:34
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