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BlackCaviar Profile
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Ex96

Registered: 07-2012
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Re: DE-SU BKM McCutchen 1174


I'm afraid you got a bit brainwashed by the organizer of your tour.
21/9/2013, 10:27 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
KINGMAMBO Profile
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Ex97
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Re: DE-SU BKM McCutchen 1174


What I am trying to say is if Blackrose had McCutchen heifers how can u say he is a great bull based on this fact and make a decision on that.To make a positive judgement on how good a bull is u need to know what they came from and if a McCutchen heifer came from a top cow family how on earth can this be rational thinking.

Years ago before Genomics u could take any test bull out there and breed them to Blackrose and I bet u would see results.These Genomic bulls are getting used on the best cows in the breed from top family's and when people see great results it must be the bull this is a pure illusion.

Of course it is selfish behaviour because peoples actions influence other people in some form or another.Why should 1 person breed a bull with high inbreeding that the many have to use why should the many loose blind profit because of high inbreeding.These people make the money selling these high inbred animals that influence the breed so why should the many loose out because of 1 persons vision of greed.

The only thing I can see is a turn of events because every action has an equal reaction and that is cross breeding.By creating animals that have no outcross that will bring high inbreeding in effect the Genomic people will kill there own market in time.With rising fuel cost do car or tractor manufactures produce machines that drink more fuel or less fuel and why is this because the market or future will demand this.If u can not make a product that is more efficient will people keep buying these products when the grass is greener on the other side.

How many people that milk cows for a living will put up with high inbreeding for a 14% cow she would loose 5000kgs per lifetime or $350 from the figures I am looking at is this acceptable.

I do not see why a bull that has inbreeding that will create high inbreeding should not be deducted he will deduct peoples profit so all is fair.I would say 80-90% of the breed is not advanced so there is no point of these advanced Genomic bulls at all what is the point of using Comestar Lee as new advance Genomic bull if he is used on Elevation or Pete daughters were is the advance u have gone back on yourself.





Last edited by KINGMAMBO, 21/9/2013, 10:36
21/9/2013, 10:35 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
foxleigh Profile
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Ex97
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Registered: 06-2003
Location: southern,oz
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Re: DE-SU BKM McCutchen 1174


MMM if numbers came true then surely all these high indexing herds that have been bred that way for decades should be getting close to 20,000l averages?Not to mention doing 100,000l lifetime.
21/9/2013, 12:53 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
KINGMAMBO Profile
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Ex97
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Re: DE-SU BKM McCutchen 1174


A cow must have a maximum production potential it can not be infinite and many cows will never last to make that sort of yield.If u factor in the increase of inbreeding there must be a limit were u can not increase anymore because the depression is pulling u back to were u started with or at best u may get a slower increase.

I wonder if a new trait could be added to proof sheets for the population or at herd level called inbreeding efficiency.Either a cow is given a figure to show how efficient she is for creating offspring from the male population or the sires selected for use or for every sire his efficiency is factored in the GLPI figure the bulls with bad inbreeding efficiency basically get points taken away from there GLPI.

This would give a better spread of genetics when people have to factor inbreeding in there selections motivating people to outcross as much as possible.

http://www.cdn.ca/query/detail_pedigree.php?breed=HO&country=CAN&sex=M&regnum=108502647

This bull above has terrible inbreeding efficiency for the population I do believe this has to stop it serves no purpose.

If all bulls are going to be created like this then I can see no point of continuing if Genomics does work then why on earth is it not used to find the best outcross bulls from average bulls daughters.

McCutchen looks a great bull going by Genomics but why breed him to Observer daughters like I have seen to create the highest Genomic values.

Why can McCutchen not be bred to Heuvel Emanuelson daughters for example to form some outcross genetics although I would rather breed this bull to Bookem himself McCutchen is a bit to far forward.

21/9/2013, 15:09 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
theYoungGuy Profile
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VG85

Registered: 08-2012
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Re: DE-SU BKM McCutchen 1174


Going to have 3 McCutchen x Goldwyn VG88 ET calves born in the following month, I'm looking forward to them.
21/9/2013, 15:50 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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VG88

Registered: 08-2013
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Re: DE-SU BKM McCutchen 1174


It's actually not a load of rubbish sounds about right
21/9/2013, 23:34 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
bazza20 Profile
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Ex 97 2E

Registered: 07-2009
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Re: DE-SU BKM McCutchen 1174


quote:

foxleigh wrote:

MMM if numbers came true then surely all these high indexing herds that have been bred that way for decades should be getting close to 20,000l averages?Not to mention doing 100,000l lifetime.



More cows doing 100000 than ever. Must be doing something right.
22/9/2013, 0:54 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
bazza20 Profile
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Ex 97 2E

Registered: 07-2009
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Re: DE-SU BKM McCutchen 1174


Those endless rants from king and all he needed to say is we need to keep an eye on inbreeding.
22/9/2013, 1:08 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
combaning Profile
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VG88

Registered: 02-2012
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Re: DE-SU BKM McCutchen 1174


Haters gonna hate
22/9/2013, 5:28 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
KINGMAMBO Profile
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Ex97
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Re: DE-SU BKM McCutchen 1174


I could just say watch the inbreeding at the herd level and what bulls are used on what cows but I believe it is vastly more complex than this.

Inbreeding is like compound interest the more u have the faster it increases so for me using a bull on a cow to lower or keep the inbreeding at a certain percentage means nothing it is the knock on effect u need to manage.Every mating has a cause and effect and if we use McCutchen as an example the effect of using him means anything with Shottle and Justice can not be used.

The problem with inbreeding is that people or the studs will only use a small portion of the available blood.With the rise of inbreeding on the population we will either face this head on and deal with the problem or the problem will deal with us in the future.

Gone are the days of using the greats on the greats we need to split these bulls apart so they are less connected with each other.Most Goldwyn blood is connected to other blood that is connected to other blood.This creates problems because either I have less options or by using these bulls that are connected to each other I have created an effect were the resulting animal will create its own inbreeding through connections.

With the vast amount of bulls across the world why for example in North America the majority of the bulls are from North America.Were are the European bloodlines or outcross blood there are none or very few and this is the problem no diversity.

The pursuit to make the highest Genomics animals is not a very well thought out plan for the future only in the present and who benefits in the present.

The bull Sudan is a decent outcross bull but what is happening he is being connected to Shottle,Goldwyn,Oman/Oman bloodlines making his son non outcross.This blood has been connected to the population to gain high Genomics that have a market.

There is no vision u take a bull that has semi outcross blood and u ruin him by connecting him this makes no sense in the long run.

Were are the Sudan sons from bulls like the Shottle son Bookmaker although this cross is connected to Shottle it is far enough back but it would contain no Goldwyn,Bolton,Planet,BW Marshall,Durham,or Justice.A bull that does not have these bulls in there pedigree can be used with these bulls blood so more options for more people in the future.

Last edited by KINGMAMBO, 22/9/2013, 13:08
22/9/2013, 13:06 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 


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