August Proof https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/t14648 Runboard| August Proof en-us Fri, 29 Mar 2024 14:19:38 +0000 Fri, 29 Mar 2024 14:19:38 +0000 https://www.runboard.com/ rssfeeds_managingeditor@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds managing editor) rssfeeds_webmaster@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds webmaster) akBBS 60 Re: August Proofhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438152,from=rss#post438152https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438152,from=rss#post438152quote:KINGMAMBO wrote: He can not be that bad with 8000 daughters and 367 of them are EX that is 1 EX for every 23 daughters born. My friend Allegro is 9% Ex in Canada, Linjet is 10% on 3000 daughters, so he's not really special, but I agree Jasper did sire some nice cows from a typewise very strange pedigree. nondisclosed_email@example.com (BlackCaviar)Sat, 16 Aug 2014 14:27:15 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438150,from=rss#post438150https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438150,from=rss#post438150Jasper was quite bad, and was used extremely and exclusively in Canada by type breeders on great cows, because his semen was very limited, and expensive.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Northcreek)Sat, 16 Aug 2014 14:18:34 +0000 Re: August Proofhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438142,from=rss#post438142https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438142,from=rss#post438142He can not be that bad with 8000 daughters and 367 of them are EX that is 1 EX for every 23 daughters born.nondisclosed_email@example.com (KINGMAMBO)Sat, 16 Aug 2014 09:34:02 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438136,from=rss#post438136https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438136,from=rss#post438136Jasper's made heifers, and few cows. Not my type of bull even for a type breeder. Terrible legs, heard they had trouble conceiving, and their udders weren't good enough to show a lot of times - which was the point In using him. nondisclosed_email@example.com (PADairymen)Sat, 16 Aug 2014 02:49:07 +0000 Re: August Proofhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438133,from=rss#post438133https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438133,from=rss#post438133Perseus is not the best bull and if he was sired by any other bull then he makes very little appeal but because he is sired by Jasper this is all that matters and nothing else. There are only three Jasper sons available two that are proven and one that will proved soon called Comestar A New Day.I dont think it was a very good idea to restrict Jasper as a sire of sons he was so far ahead of 99% of his cross being a Lee x Bellwood with great udders how rare was he if u want type Jasper is a great component and should not be wasted. nondisclosed_email@example.com (KINGMAMBO)Sat, 16 Aug 2014 00:07:40 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438094,from=rss#post438094https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438094,from=rss#post438094BC he is a Planet from a Shottle! If this is a statement on genomic proofs, the simple rules of genomics appply to all bulls Shamrock isnt special. It really is not worth tilting at windmills. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Buckeye)Fri, 15 Aug 2014 16:11:58 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438093,from=rss#post438093https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438093,from=rss#post438093My feeling is BlackCavier has something more going on here than just Shamrock. I can understand hating Oman, or Goldwyn - when you are breeding for type or for net merit, respectively. But hating Shamrock is kind of odd. Maybe he just doesn't like the breeder.nondisclosed_email@example.com (PADairymen)Fri, 15 Aug 2014 15:47:04 +0000 Re: August Proofhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438092,from=rss#post438092https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438092,from=rss#post438092I said I don't personally like Shamrock, I will not use the bull again. Use the bull's proof in his home country where he has the most dtrs as well. To look at his type proof and say he is horrible is a joke. I am disappointed personally in the bull, others like him and that is fine. What is inconsistent about that?nondisclosed_email@example.com (craethke)Fri, 15 Aug 2014 15:41:24 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438091,from=rss#post438091https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438091,from=rss#post438091It's hard to compare a genomic proof to a daughter proof don't you think?nondisclosed_email@example.com (PADairymen)Fri, 15 Aug 2014 15:05:43 +0000 Re: Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438090,from=rss#post438090https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438090,from=rss#post438090quote:Buckeye wrote: Shamrock has a NM of +685 on 2500+ daughters. We get it you don't like him, but at this point you are just making noise. He is what his pedigree suggested that he would be. I understand you don't like my comments, but this bull was over 900 NM 3 years ago, 3.2 PTAT and nearly 2500 gTPI. Which of the 2 proofs is what his pedigree suggested? He is used because of this marvelous proof 3 years ago. Sales guys just don't like to look back, selling is equal to breeding for them. nondisclosed_email@example.com (BlackCaviar)Fri, 15 Aug 2014 15:00:44 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438088,from=rss#post438088https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438088,from=rss#post438088Shamrock has a NM of +685 on 2500+ daughters. We get it you don't like him, but at this point you are just making noise. He is what his pedigree suggested that he would be. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Buckeye)Fri, 15 Aug 2014 14:26:00 +0000 Re: August Proofhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438085,from=rss#post438085https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438085,from=rss#post438085quote:craethke wrote: This is exactly what I don't understand about pedigree breeding. When using young sires, even with genomic testing, everybody understands that the point of progeny testing is to "prove" the bull's own inheritance, not just rely on the pedigree. And, regardless of high genomic or deep pedigree, when a bull has milking dtrs, it is make or break time on his use. So, why when a bull has milking dtrs who show him to be way below breed average for a large number of traits, does anybody feel the need to defend the bull or his proof? Or, use him for that matter. I don't care who his mama is, or what show she won, or her GTPI, if a bull is no good, throw him on the genetic scrap heap. A poorly proven bull is just that, move on, there are so many good bulls to use, don't make excuses for a turd. In another threat you were still quite relaxed about Shamrock, plus 1 kg of protein in the Canadian index, not very special on type (understatement), please stay consistent. Cull everything related to Shamrock please. nondisclosed_email@example.com (BlackCaviar)Fri, 15 Aug 2014 14:15:00 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438080,from=rss#post438080https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438080,from=rss#post438080But.... what if it's a RED bull? Then we can still use it right?nondisclosed_email@example.com (Northcreek)Fri, 15 Aug 2014 13:52:13 +0000 Re: August Proofhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438078,from=rss#post438078https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438078,from=rss#post438078This is exactly what I don't understand about pedigree breeding. When using young sires, even with genomic testing, everybody understands that the point of progeny testing is to "prove" the bull's own inheritance, not just rely on the pedigree. And, regardless of high genomic or deep pedigree, when a bull has milking dtrs, it is make or break time on his use. So, why when a bull has milking dtrs who show him to be way below breed average for a large number of traits, does anybody feel the need to defend the bull or his proof? Or, use him for that matter. I don't care who his mama is, or what show she won, or her GTPI, if a bull is no good, throw him on the genetic scrap heap. A poorly proven bull is just that, move on, there are so many good bulls to use, don't make excuses for a turd.nondisclosed_email@example.com (craethke)Fri, 15 Aug 2014 13:45:18 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438076,from=rss#post438076https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438076,from=rss#post438076If you put either Badwire or Petseus's proofs on any genomic bull's pedigree, you would be flipping out. Seriously those bulls are unusable. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Buckeye)Fri, 15 Aug 2014 13:31:59 +0000 Re: August Proofhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438075,from=rss#post438075https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438075,from=rss#post438075Quite a few people seem to quote the classification scores of daughters of bulls. Without knowing the herdmates scores I find daughter scores of little value.Working with many large commercial herds a score of 80 would be well above ave.nondisclosed_email@example.com (aaron rodgers)Fri, 15 Aug 2014 13:17:50 +0000 Re: August Proofhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438074,from=rss#post438074https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438074,from=rss#post438074I would not say they are worthless rather useless to many people would be the best way of putting it apart from SCS and calving ease what is wrong with Perseus he is a RC Jasper that contains no Goldwyn and with 13% R Value he looks great value. nondisclosed_email@example.com (KINGMAMBO)Fri, 15 Aug 2014 13:10:28 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438073,from=rss#post438073https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438073,from=rss#post438073Barbwire and Petseus are completely worthless. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Buckeye)Fri, 15 Aug 2014 12:20:20 +0000 Re: August Proofhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438064,from=rss#post438064https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438064,from=rss#post438064He is making some smart 2yr olds in Canada and I bet there will be a load more to come his family is top class and has depth and quality using him with Destry looks the best option combing Tony Beauty and Tony Rae lines. nondisclosed_email@example.com (KINGMAMBO)Fri, 15 Aug 2014 04:36:28 +0000 Re: August Proofhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438062,from=rss#post438062https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438062,from=rss#post438062Your opinion is wrong. nondisclosed_email@example.com (AldrichFarms)Fri, 15 Aug 2014 04:02:20 +0000 Re: August Proofhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438061,from=rss#post438061https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438061,from=rss#post438061Your missing the point. He doesn't sire milk production and they are not healthy animals. The fact that he is positive for frame and a couple udder traits should not make up for the fact that he is terrible in many others.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Island Holsteins)Fri, 15 Aug 2014 03:39:09 +0000 Re: August Proofhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438060,from=rss#post438060https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438060,from=rss#post438060If u are concerned with health traits he is not the bull to use.U have mentioned his negative points but what about his positive points like fore attachment rear attachment height stature depth and width. This bull is Red and does not contain Goldwyn or the Apple family he should work with Armani Acme Advent Colt P Magna P Destry Pitbull Larson and even Absolute daughters could be used with Barbwire for great results if the goal is Red Type.Barbwire might not be the best bull in the world but he can be used in a lot of places and he brings lots of useful traits that are needed in some animals which makes him a useful prospect.nondisclosed_email@example.com (KINGMAMBO)Fri, 15 Aug 2014 03:32:08 +0000 Re: August Proofhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438058,from=rss#post438058https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438058,from=rss#post438058Your kidding on Barbwire right? Negative Milk, no protein, big minus on median suspensory. Below average herd life and milking speed. Above average SCC. Below average calving ease, temperament.... I could go on. Ain't nobody got time for that bull.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Island Holsteins)Fri, 15 Aug 2014 03:01:16 +0000 Re: August Proofhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438056,from=rss#post438056https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438056,from=rss#post438056Facebook has great production but I don't think he has or will have much type on offer when compared to the newly proven Oman/Oman sons like Machman from the Luncrest M family or even Magnus from Select he looks average. One bull that has a nice proof is Barbwire who brings lots of strength and type he looks a very useful bull especially with Goldwyn blood.nondisclosed_email@example.com (KINGMAMBO)Fri, 15 Aug 2014 01:38:21 +0000 Re: August Proofhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438040,from=rss#post438040https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438040,from=rss#post438040quote:JonnyLungs wrote: quote:BlackCaviar wrote: I don't know about this bull and his proof, not my thing, but if I look at Holstein ca and see that of the 22 non ET daughters (of 33 total) the highest is classified 83, next one 81, then I think this bull is a little disaster typewise, despite his 2.5 PTAT in the US, which is only half a point less then Damion. Who is fooling who. 2.5 PTAT is pretty much middle of the road these days, isn't it? Just sorting through active sires with daughters, it's not like he's very high on the list for PTAT. Type breeders probably need to be looking around that 3.50 PTAT to get more in line with what they would be expecting (in a general sense anyway). I might agree with you, but I don't understand why bulls like Sanchez, Damion, Goldwyn didn't move up. Goldwyn is only 2.81, just slightly higher then facebook. It looks like you can only compare bulls from the new generation with each other. Bulls that are a bit older are deflated some way, that's not the idea behind a genetic evaluation I think. You inflate progress this way. nondisclosed_email@example.com (BlackCaviar)Thu, 14 Aug 2014 17:25:19 +0000 Re: August Proofhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438035,from=rss#post438035https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438035,from=rss#post438035quote:BlackCaviar wrote: I don't know about this bull and his proof, not my thing, but if I look at Holstein ca and see that of the 22 non ET daughters (of 33 total) the highest is classified 83, next one 81, then I think this bull is a little disaster typewise, despite his 2.5 PTAT in the US, which is only half a point less then Damion. Who is fooling who. 2.5 PTAT is pretty much middle of the road these days, isn't it? Just sorting through active sires with daughters, it's not like he's very high on the list for PTAT. Type breeders probably need to be looking around that 3.50 PTAT to get more in line with what they would be expecting (in a general sense anyway).nondisclosed_email@example.com (JonnyLungs)Thu, 14 Aug 2014 17:05:08 +0000 Re: August Proofhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438031,from=rss#post438031https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438031,from=rss#post438031quote:JonnyLungs wrote: I see Facebook inherited a touch of the daughter stillbirth problems from his grandsire. I'm down to one Airraid left in my herd. Fifth calving and she finally had a live calf. I don't know about this bull and his proof, not my thing, but if I look at Holstein ca and see that of the 22 non ET daughters (of 33 total) the highest is classified 83, next one 81, then I think this bull is a little disaster typewise, despite his 2.5 PTAT in the US, which is only half a point less then Damion. Who is fooling who. nondisclosed_email@example.com (BlackCaviar)Thu, 14 Aug 2014 16:25:51 +0000 Re: August Proofhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438028,from=rss#post438028https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438028,from=rss#post438028I see Facebook inherited a touch of the daughter stillbirth problems from his grandsire. I'm down to one Airraid left in my herd. Fifth calving and she finally had a live calf.nondisclosed_email@example.com (JonnyLungs)Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:49:54 +0000 Re: August Proofhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438016,from=rss#post438016https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438016,from=rss#post438016Lol, Misfortune, I like it!!nondisclosed_email@example.com (Riceton)Wed, 13 Aug 2014 21:53:41 +0000 Re: August Proofhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438014,from=rss#post438014https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438014,from=rss#post438014Chap only has 24 scored dtrs to this point, may want to wait a round to see more type data come in. Bought 5 units as a young sire, got 3 bred hfrs by him now. Strong smooth and wide would best describe them, tall enough, not flat boned at this point, will be curious to se them calve in and put on udders. Dam's are by Planet, To-Mar Misfortune and Hillside M Solo, and they were more wide than tall as well. Maybe coincidence, but struggled a bit to get them PG, will see if that means anything as cows.nondisclosed_email@example.com (craethke)Wed, 13 Aug 2014 19:41:51 +0000