Marbri Facebook https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/t14674 Runboard| Marbri Facebook en-us Thu, 28 Mar 2024 08:33:51 +0000 Thu, 28 Mar 2024 08:33:51 +0000 https://www.runboard.com/ rssfeeds_managingeditor@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds managing editor) rssfeeds_webmaster@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds webmaster) akBBS 60 Re: Marbri Facebookhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438217,from=rss#post438217https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438217,from=rss#post438217quote:KINGMAMBO wrote: The whole purpose of selecting a bull should be on the basis that u want cows like his mother or his sisters without this what have u got just a load of numbers.   I started the "pedigree holes" topic just for this. IMO breeding the next bull that works is a combination of luck, art & science. Not just he "needs x to be a good bull" Sometimes a bull has every box ticked that you want and works. Sometimes they don't. I look forward to see what facebook does in the future.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Craigalea)Tue, 19 Aug 2014 03:25:26 +0000 Re: Marbri Facebookhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438213,from=rss#post438213https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438213,from=rss#post438213quote:KINGMAMBO wrote: The whole purpose of selecting a bull should be on the basis that u want cows like his mother or his sisters without this what have u got just a load of numbers. The GP is absolutely useless because of ET daughters and it makes a bull look better than he is but if a bull with ET daughters with this level of GP how can he be given a second look. He has made very little improvements from what I can see he looks like a milk bull with very little type Uno may be better balanced with less milk and he is probably worth waiting for.   If your first point was true we wouldn't need to prove bulls or have an index. We could just look at the dam and we all know that doesn't work. Even if accurate GP doesn't tell us anything important. nondisclosed_email@example.com (bazza20)Tue, 19 Aug 2014 02:10:02 +0000 Re: Marbri Facebookhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438210,from=rss#post438210https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438210,from=rss#post438210The whole purpose of selecting a bull should be on the basis that u want cows like his mother or his sisters without this what have u got just a load of numbers. The GP is absolutely useless because of ET daughters and it makes a bull look better than he is but if a bull with ET daughters with this level of GP how can he be given a second look. He has made very little improvements from what I can see he looks like a milk bull with very little type Uno may be better balanced with less milk and he is probably worth waiting for.  nondisclosed_email@example.com (KINGMAMBO)Tue, 19 Aug 2014 02:03:26 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438207,from=rss#post438207https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438207,from=rss#post438207Mambo keep in mind when you go through a bulls few proven daughters and look for classification score improvements, that the dams have been scored more than one time, and as 2nd, 3rd and 4rth calvers, they are much more likely to be scored VG than a 2yr old.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Northcreek)Tue, 19 Aug 2014 00:50:08 +0000 Re: Marbri Facebookhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438204,from=rss#post438204https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438204,from=rss#post438204quote:KINGMAMBO wrote: Regancrest Lieutenant DD EX92 was a great cow but would u use Lieutenant because of this cow and the same can be said for Facebook who has made some smart daughters but is this the female side at work or is it Facebook with 49% GP> it does not look like the bull is doing the work. Again. How many times when you use a straw of semen do you milk the dam of the bull? You milk the offspring of the bull not the dam of the bull. GP percentage. Who cares, that tells us so little it is absolutely useless. nondisclosed_email@example.com (bazza20)Tue, 19 Aug 2014 00:25:07 +0000 Re: Marbri Facebookhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438203,from=rss#post438203https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438203,from=rss#post438203Regancrest Lieutenant DD EX92 was a great cow but would u use Lieutenant because of this cow and the same can be said for Facebook who has made some smart daughters but is this the female side at work or is it Facebook with 49% GP> it does not look like the bull is doing the work.nondisclosed_email@example.com (KINGMAMBO)Tue, 19 Aug 2014 00:10:53 +0000 Re: Marbri Facebookhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438202,from=rss#post438202https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438202,from=rss#post438202Reading older posts about redesign on here also makes you wonder. Everyone hated eland but I think redesign turned out alright and made some good cows, might just be the Delia pushing through!nondisclosed_email@example.com (Valiant97)Mon, 18 Aug 2014 22:45:52 +0000 Re: Marbri Facebookhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438198,from=rss#post438198https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438198,from=rss#post438198I know it's only hypothetical but Lieutenant on Delia? What would they have been like in the parlour?nondisclosed_email@example.com (donkey5)Mon, 18 Aug 2014 19:59:30 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438193,from=rss#post438193https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438193,from=rss#post438193No need to comment on the photo theory but the female line is the strongest is also bonkers some lines breed better than others male or female. Dellia is a good example as here sons and grandsons are also very dominant in a mating ,also don't forget that most excellent cow start out at 79-80 pts anyway. On Facebook it's just a good start next round or to will make or break him. I know Airraid has a bad reputation but I have 4 in there 4th lactation 86,86,86,91 points all out of average cows doing 11000-15000l so he's not done me to much harm althought we did have a lot of dead bull calves from him.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Outside)Mon, 18 Aug 2014 10:22:31 +0000 Re: Marbri Facebookhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438192,from=rss#post438192https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438192,from=rss#post438192The maternal line is the strongest if I had a bull like Lieutenant and used him on Dellia I bet by using such a dominant line I could produce great animals that are high scored with great pictures how does this give any credit to the bull. This is the reason why very low scored cows should be used for testing then we know by sight that actual improvement's have been made over there dams without this we have no clue who is doing what.I believe the female has some kind of protection built in to stop the male being dominate there is no point 1000 cows being genetically dominated by 1 individual this will create no diversification in the long run. If there is not a Facebook daughter that is pictured from average cows then I would ask the question why not without this evidence how can he be trusted when 90% of the cows he will be bred to do not come from these dominant lines and these pictures are just illusions.      nondisclosed_email@example.com (KINGMAMBO)Mon, 18 Aug 2014 09:25:42 +0000 Re: Marbri Facebookhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438191,from=rss#post438191https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438191,from=rss#post438191It always pays to look at past precedents. The type breeders who raise their hands in horror at Facebook's 80 pt dam would probably have been lost without one of their all time type favourites, Durham .... and yet Durham's sire Emprise Bell Elton was out of an 83 pt heifer who never finished her first lactation..... not to mention that Elton's maternal grandsire, Glendell Arlinda Chief, was out of an unclassified heifer, that died shortly after calving if I remember correctly. If Facebook stays up when he has a more widespread daughter proven proof then I would have no qualms about using him irrespective of his 80 pt dam.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Eryl Vet)Mon, 18 Aug 2014 09:01:50 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438190,from=rss#post438190https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438190,from=rss#post43819080 point dam is hardly the end of the world anyway. Last time I classified I liked many of the cows that scored in the low 80s better than those that scored higher anyway. nondisclosed_email@example.com (bazza20)Mon, 18 Aug 2014 08:57:50 +0000 Re: Marbri Facebookhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438188,from=rss#post438188https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438188,from=rss#post438188We have bulls whose dam died before classification but have her genomics done. Because she is unclassified does that make her a worse prospect than the one out of VG85 3yr X Y or Z cow? An 80 point dam can make you stop and think, but doesn't end the world. quote:KINGMAMBO wrote: ...and most of the pictured daughters are from strong maternal lines and many have brothers in AI does not show a true picture of this bull.    Any argument on daughter photos is a bad argument. Any bull can sire a daughter that will photograph well, regardless of the cows maternal lines. I bet there are daughters just as good out of "ordinary" maternal lines. Why would they spend more money photographing those animals when the ones from "strong maternal lines" are already done? No daughter photo is a "true picture" of any bull. They are the best of that bull.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Craigalea)Mon, 18 Aug 2014 08:02:22 +0000 Re: Marbri Facebookhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438187,from=rss#post438187https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438187,from=rss#post438187quote:KINGMAMBO wrote: A low scored cow with great Genomics is only half the equation why would u want to have animals that are lowed scored that transmit well when there are great cows that transmit well these are the full equation being dominant on both sides.If any low scored cow has high Genomics what is the reason for this and by using these animals that have these expressions is there not a chance of producing animals exactly the same that have there potential dominated by poor phenotype. Facebook may suit some people but to me he looks weak with only 49% GP and most of the pictured daughters are from strong maternal lines and many have brothers in AI does not show a true picture of this bull.      I milk the offspring not the dam. I couldn't care what the dam scores like. nondisclosed_email@example.com (bazza20)Mon, 18 Aug 2014 07:28:06 +0000 Re: Marbri Facebookhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438186,from=rss#post438186https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438186,from=rss#post438186A low scored cow with great Genomics is only half the equation why would u want to have animals that are lowed scored that transmit well when there are great cows that transmit well these are the full equation being dominant on both sides.If any low scored cow has high Genomics what is the reason for this and by using these animals that have these expressions is there not a chance of producing animals exactly the same that have there potential dominated by poor phenotype. Facebook may suit some people but to me he looks weak with only 49% GP and most of the pictured daughters are from strong maternal lines and many have brothers in AI does not show a true picture of this bull.     nondisclosed_email@example.com (KINGMAMBO)Mon, 18 Aug 2014 07:15:59 +0000 Re: Marbri Facebookhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438182,from=rss#post438182https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438182,from=rss#post438182You are exactly right Valiant. Even the people who used Facebook were not thrilled by his 80 pt Airraid dam, so the bull's window of use was very short. People liked his son's (Jabir) cow family and prefix, and I think made it even less likely to use Facebook at a later date. Mogul and Supersire have had a terrific run of high genomic offspring, and both have great SCR scores, and in some cases got used just as super settlers, furthering their appeal.nondisclosed_email@example.com (craethke)Mon, 18 Aug 2014 02:24:47 +0000 Re: Marbri Facebookhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438175,from=rss#post438175https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438175,from=rss#post438175A bull has to impress people big time in order for people to keep using them as a genomic bull when they could be using His sons. Mogul and supersire are big time outliers because everyone likes the heifers they have. Better off to use the next #1. If you're in that game, why wouldn't you?!?nondisclosed_email@example.com (Valiant97)Sun, 17 Aug 2014 18:03:17 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438174,from=rss#post438174https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438174,from=rss#post438174I saw on Holsteincentral.com that facebook had 4 VG 2 yr olds out of 11 scored. So I looked up facebook on Holsteins website using the newly classified daughters by top 100 tpi - all of his VG 2 yr olds are from well-known respected herds. The bull isn't even on the list for registry activity so he must not have been getting much use in the past year.nondisclosed_email@example.com (PADairymen)Sun, 17 Aug 2014 16:46:12 +0000 Re: Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438173,from=rss#post438173https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438173,from=rss#post438173quote:judgefarms wrote: quote:to use the lowest scored daughters is poor judgement even if the genomics say otherwise We're getting phenotype and genotype mixed up here. Genomics is about the transmitting ability of an animal, not how it looks. Even from a type angle, some small ugly animal could contain the world's best type genes. There are many environmental reasons why an animal looks the way it does, genomics cracks through this and tells us what genes are there. Amennondisclosed_email@example.com (BlackCaviar)Sun, 17 Aug 2014 16:39:07 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438172,from=rss#post438172https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438172,from=rss#post438172Despite my fear of Airraid and skepticism of Facebook, I did use a Facebook son: Coyne-Farms Jabir I'm a fan of the Ramos Jelly family, especially after a trip to Coyne last winter.nondisclosed_email@example.com (judgefarms)Sun, 17 Aug 2014 14:48:08 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438171,from=rss#post438171https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438171,from=rss#post438171quote:to use the lowest scored daughters is poor judgement even if the genomics say otherwise We're getting phenotype and genotype mixed up here. Genomics is about the transmitting ability of an animal, not how it looks. Even from a type angle, some small ugly animal could contain the world's best type genes. There are many environmental reasons why an animal looks the way it does, genomics cracks through this and tells us what genes are there.nondisclosed_email@example.com (judgefarms)Sun, 17 Aug 2014 14:37:59 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438170,from=rss#post438170https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438170,from=rss#post438170KM I have seen you whine about bulls not getting chances. Yet you are the first to complain about Facebook. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Buckeye)Sun, 17 Aug 2014 14:20:31 +0000 Re: Marbri Facebookhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438168,from=rss#post438168https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438168,from=rss#post438168With only 49% GP> I can not see how his type will be any higher when he gets a Canadian proof a 49% bull should be no better than +5 for type. This is the problem with selection why would u use Airraid for sons and take bulls from his daughters he is a bad bull if health traits are the goal for the majority of the breed.Why use bulls that put u in an opposite direction than u want go and to use the lowest scored daughters is poor judgement even if the genomics say otherwise. To many bulls are used as sires of sons that hold some of the poorest traits of there genetics while bulls that are ahead of there genetics are mostly ignored a great example from history would be Jogger a great udder bull from a Rotate mother. nondisclosed_email@example.com (KINGMAMBO)Sun, 17 Aug 2014 09:32:16 +0000 Re: Marbri Facebookhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438167,from=rss#post438167https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438167,from=rss#post438167Udders look good on UK conversionnondisclosed_email@example.com (Redhouse Holsteins)Sun, 17 Aug 2014 09:28:21 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438164,from=rss#post438164https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438164,from=rss#post438164Ya, Airraid in a pedigree scares the heck out of me. Facebook's health traits are nothing to write home about either. The quip of TPI: tall, pretty and infertile might be fitting here.nondisclosed_email@example.com (judgefarms)Sun, 17 Aug 2014 03:18:01 +0000 Re: Marbri Facebookhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438160,from=rss#post438160https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438160,from=rss#post438160quote:farmer57 wrote: If you want a herd of "sloppy uddered" short lived cows-by all means use facebook! Don't know who's in charge of the gtpi formula but its all screwed up ! What happened to the days of common cowsense ? Where are you getting sloppy uddered from?nondisclosed_email@example.com (bazza20)Sat, 16 Aug 2014 19:49:04 +0000 Re: Marbri Facebookhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438159,from=rss#post438159https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438159,from=rss#post438159If you want a herd of "sloppy uddered" short lived cows-by all means use facebook! Don't know who's in charge of the gtpi formula but its all screwed up ! What happened to the days of common cowsense ?nondisclosed_email@example.com (farmer57)Sat, 16 Aug 2014 18:20:54 +0000 Re: Marbri Facebookhttps://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438156,from=rss#post438156https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438156,from=rss#post438156Very early on him, like the high fat. No fan of Airraid though, and the stillbirth on Facebook is on the high side. PL of 2.8 will not win any contests, and if it goes lower it spells real problems. No plans to use him now, time will tell. Pretty nice linear, except for the high pins.nondisclosed_email@example.com (craethke)Sat, 16 Aug 2014 15:59:46 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438155,from=rss#post438155https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438155,from=rss#post438155His dam is only 80 points as a two-year old because she's a 3-titter. On the YouTube video of his daughters, I was not impressed with them type wise, but might be a good milk bull.nondisclosed_email@example.com (jbeyer)Sat, 16 Aug 2014 15:55:44 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438154,from=rss#post438154https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p438154,from=rss#post438154Might order some although I dont like the high pins http://ukcows.com/holsteinuk/publicweb/AnimalData/data/ASMalefs.asp?AnimalID=37591571nondisclosed_email@example.com (Redhouse Holsteins)Sat, 16 Aug 2014 14:53:32 +0000