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BlackCaviar Profile
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Ex96

Registered: 07-2012
Posts: 947
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Re: Expo


quote:

Blackwalnut wrote:

PAD it's got nothing to do with diet,thin wins thin wins thin wins.......





http://www.thebullvine.com/show-reports/eastern-national-holstein-show-at-the-all-american-dairy-show-2014/

Best example of skeleton was this one, Brookvilla Goldwyn Brooks, intermediate and grand champion eastern national last week.

Especially the larger picture above the intermediate champion section shows her fragility. Such a cow, even fed differently, would never survive a fall outside in the field in Holland. No idea who likes such kind of cows, completely lost the link with reality

It's sunday so maybe it's a good idea to read the tale of the emperor without clothes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor's_New_Clothes .
21/9/2014, 8:55 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
PADairymen Profile
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Ex 97 2E

Registered: 12-2009
Posts: 1676
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Re:


I guarantee you that Goldwyn Brooks cow is on heifer hay - stem, low feed value. She is fed that way to give her as much spring to her rib as possible. She is not on any silage. She is not on TMR. I guarantee that. That has a lot to do with why they are thin. I have the same genetics as that cow with mine on TMR and the body condition is completely different.

For grazing herds - I think grazing cows with little supplement are thinner cows. I think it has a lot to do with gut fill being maxed out early due to high forage/fiber diets and thereby making it harder to get enough energy into them. So a bigger cow does not work as well in intensive grazing because their maintenance energy needs are higher and struggle to be reached in a diet that is high fiber.

Some of it is genetics - not going to say it doesn't play a role - but you wouldn't put a Goldwyn in an intensive grazing herd - it doesn't make sense to do that - so comparing it to that really means little to me.
21/9/2014, 15:13 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
bazza20 Profile
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Ex 97 2E

Registered: 07-2009
Posts: 1983
Karma: 30 (+32/-2)
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Re: Re:


quote:

PADairymen wrote:

I guarantee you that Goldwyn Brooks cow is on heifer hay - stem, low feed value. She is fed that way to give her as much spring to her rib as possible. She is not on any silage. She is not on TMR. I guarantee that. That has a lot to do with why they are thin. I have the same genetics as that cow with mine on TMR and the body condition is completely different.

For grazing herds - I think grazing cows with little supplement are thinner cows. I think it has a lot to do with gut fill being maxed out early due to high forage/fiber diets and thereby making it harder to get enough energy into them. So a bigger cow does not work as well in intensive grazing because their maintenance energy needs are higher and struggle to be reached in a diet that is high fiber.

Some of it is genetics - not going to say it doesn't play a role - but you wouldn't put a Goldwyn in an intensive grazing herd - it doesn't make sense to do that - so comparing it to that really means little to me.



Not that I thing it's the right thing but plenty here used Goldwyn and Goldwyn blood in grazing herds.
21/9/2014, 22:36 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
Craigalea Profile
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Registered: 12-2004
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Re:


45 Goldwyn sons over 80% rel here

Average proof of these & ranges
7kg prot (range 30 to -19)
293 milk (range 1057 to -620)
8kg fat (range 51 to -21)
break even %'s
105 type (112-96)
107 mamm (115-94)
predictable average 117 stature 88 chest width, 119 udder depth, pin set 102,
Where they really win is:
138 cell count (best 167 & only one negative!)
104 daughter fert (110 to 94, only 4 negative)

A couple of really nice traits, a couple the other way. Yes he has merit on grass, no his type isn't what I would call... ideal for grass based systems, at least not what I prefer myself, I do think cows need a bit of engine room between their front legs. There are plenty of good traits to outweigh the bad.
I generally skip looking at Goldwyns proof, being that he was only available here for a high price mostly, he was only used on top end cows.

---
Cattle art and bad cow puns: http://sketch-a-bull.tumblr.com/
22/9/2014, 1:57 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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EX91

Registered: 01-2013
Posts: 224
Karma: 1 (+1/-0)
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Re: Re:


quote:

Craigalea wrote:

45 Goldwyn sons over 80% rel here

Average proof of these & ranges
7kg prot (range 30 to -19)
293 milk (range 1057 to -620)
8kg fat (range 51 to -21)
break even %'s
105 type (112-96)
107 mamm (115-94)
predictable average 117 stature 88 chest width, 119 udder depth, pin set 102,
Where they really win is:
138 cell count (best 167 & only one negative!)
104 daughter fert (110 to 94, only 4 negative)

A couple of really nice traits, a couple the other way. Yes he has merit on grass, no his type isn't what I would call... ideal for grass based systems, at least not what I prefer myself, I do think cows need a bit of engine room between their front legs. There are plenty of good traits to outweigh the bad.
I generally skip looking at Goldwyns proof, being that he was only available here for a high price mostly, he was only used on top end cows.



Absolutely agree that the good by far out ways the bad Goldwyn x Oman bulls are making some nice heifers here and are not making my cows any taller at least so far.
22/9/2014, 6:16 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
Craigalea Profile
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Registered: 12-2004
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Re: Re:


quote:

Outside wrote:

Absolutely agree that the good by far out ways the bad Goldwyn x Oman bulls are making some nice heifers here and are not making my cows any taller at least so far.



IMO - Tick enough of the right boxes and you can live with the wrong ones. Hmm... maybe I should pull down the data of the US proven Goldwyn sons and have a look at where they landed. The Planets were very interesting.

---
Cattle art and bad cow puns: http://sketch-a-bull.tumblr.com/
22/9/2014, 7:04 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
dabble1980 Profile
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Ex96

Registered: 12-2012
Posts: 995
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Re:


I don't think that cow looks very skeletal at all. I think she is a good weight for shows, Not too skinny, not too fat. With that being said; I have seen thinner cows at Expo in the last handful of years: cows who had every vertebrae in their neck protruding. As stated above it comes down to what they are fed: no corn or silage and a mostly first cut hay diet.

Dairyness is key in the show arena and those cows kept on special diets are always going to win over the more conditioned cows in the same class.

If there is one thing to be said for any of the classes at Expo: whether placed first, mid-pack, or last they are all very quality cows and heifers and I wouldn't mind having a bottom of the class animal at Expo in our barn.
22/9/2014, 14:21 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
Blackwalnut Profile
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VG88

Registered: 08-2013
Posts: 118
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Re: Expo


Dabble,hope it's not a freestall barn !!!!
22/9/2014, 15:40 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
PADairymen Profile
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Ex 97 2E

Registered: 12-2009
Posts: 1676
Karma: 21 (+23/-2)
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Re:


More and more show cows are in freestall barns. Maybe you should go see Windy-Knoll-View.
22/9/2014, 18:10 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
dabble1980 Profile
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Ex96

Registered: 12-2012
Posts: 995
Karma: 7 (+7/-0)
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Re:


the majority of top placers at shows like Expo do not live in free stalls. they are box stall cows who live in show barns or tie stalls.
22/9/2014, 19:51 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 


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