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boltonmanor Profile
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VG86
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Re: Semex Healthsmart and Immunity+


You all know perfectly well if you want to find anomolies in a group you can, i assume you all have daughters of milky bulls that dont milk that great.

I have some small sanchezs, etc etc.

I completely agree with bearing in mind the funding source, doing research at uni was quite revealing.

I purely view it as a positive i am not using it exclusively.

Some of the farms visited in wisconsin Were only using Immunity+ sires

---
Herd: 19EX, 59 VG, 79GP, 39G

Highest Classification: 94(5E) Storm
9/12/2014, 7:11 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
Nortonhill Profile
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GP81
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Re: Semex Healthsmart and Immunity+


Following the analysis by the Bullvine of proven Immunity + bulls compared to 4 other groups of sires, it looks like they are scoring around 30% lower on productive life !!
]Bullvine link to analysis
Semex are still heavily advertising Immunity + as though the science works but these results show that does not seem to be the case, especially on the most important trait of PL ?
   
10/10/2015, 23:49 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
Keff Profile
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EX90
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Re:


I believe that is called a small sample size. It would be better to compare all the Imm+ bulls versus all proven bulls of comparable age. And more accurate if the majority of those bulls actually had 2nd crop daughters milking.

If you look the Imm+ bulls are doing pretty good for DPR and SCS vs those top bulls anyways and Productive Life is more of a calculation then acutal data for newly proven bulls. "Traits used for predicting PL on younger cows include yield traits, fertility, somatic cell score, the calving difficulty traits, and the three type composites"
11/10/2015, 1:36 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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EX91
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Re:


Thanks for the link Nortonhill. That is an interesting analysis. Surely makes a person think a little differently and more critically of Immunity+.

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11/10/2015, 18:42 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
bazza20 Profile
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Ex 97 2E
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Re:


Just seems a backwards way to do things. Like using certain type traits to breed for high production.

If you want health select for health.
11/10/2015, 18:59 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
Keff Profile
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EX90
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Re:


I do agree that if you have a problem with Cell Count breed for Cell Count, problem with Repro breed for Repro. Don't expect Imm+ to fix those problems

If you have a problem with pneumonia/metritis/Retained Placentas it is worth looking at Imm+ or at least pay attention to which bloodlines test well for Immunity.

The fact that The Bullvine thinks there is a 29% difference between 3.9 vs 5 in PL shows he doesn't know what he is talking about. It means the PL calculation thinks the [sign in to see URL] will last 1.1 month less then the 5PL and the average PL is around 27 months of PL 30.9/32 is 3.5% not 29%.
 It's like saying for 2 bulls Bull A is 5 for BF and Bull B is 10 for BF that Bull B 100% better for BF.
13/10/2015, 13:47 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
bazza20 Profile
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Ex 97 2E
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Re: Re:


quote:

Keff wrote:

I do agree that if you have a problem with Cell Count breed for Cell Count, problem with Repro breed for Repro. Don't expect Imm+ to fix those problems

If you have a problem with pneumonia/metritis/Retained Placentas it is worth looking at Imm+ or at least pay attention to which bloodlines test well for Immunity.

The fact that The Bullvine thinks there is a 29% difference between 3.9 vs 5 in PL shows he doesn't know what he is talking about. It means the PL calculation thinks the [sign in to see URL] will last 1.1 month less then the 5PL and the average PL is around 27 months of PL 30.9/32 is 3.5% not 29%.
 It's like saying for 2 bulls Bull A is 5 for BF and Bull B is 10 for BF that Bull B 100% better for BF.


Ideally we would have measurements for all Heath issues and could just go off that but without that PL is the next best thing. I don't get payed more from supposed high immune response animals, why immune response, who cares, why not measure disease incidence and go off the direct issue.

 Problem animals don't last so I don't see any benefit to immune + over high PL bulls.


14/10/2015, 1:04 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
Keff Profile
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EX90
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Re:


Yep that would be the ideal thing, just assume people don't keep good enough records to get accurate data. I don't see how immunity is a bad thing, I'm not gonna use a worse bull because he is Imm+ but it will be a tiebreaker.

I've tried to find as much info on PL as I could but it is really hard, but it seems better to breed for actual health traits instead of PL since it has a really low heritability.
14/10/2015, 2:58 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
bazza20 Profile
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Ex 97 2E
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Re:


PL has plenty of heritability.
15/10/2015, 18:05 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
errolston Profile
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Ex 97 2E
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Re: Semex Healthsmart and Immunity+


Keff, on your point about PL heritability.

Both Planet and Robust are really high for PL but neither are better than average at best for scc or daughter fertility.
17/10/2015, 10:59 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 


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