Sexed semen conception rates???? https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/t14892 Runboard| Sexed semen conception rates???? en-us Thu, 28 Mar 2024 16:24:38 +0000 Thu, 28 Mar 2024 16:24:38 +0000 https://www.runboard.com/ rssfeeds_managingeditor@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds managing editor) rssfeeds_webmaster@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds webmaster) akBBS 60 Re: Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443404,from=rss#post443404https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443404,from=rss#post443404Had tried Cogent sexed semen 3 or 4 years ago and had no luck with rubbish conception and the very few pregancies we did get producing bull calves. The last 18 months tried again with Semex sexed ultra semen, inseminating both youngstock at the grass and housed during winter. With Wa-del Bryant and Bombero got 11 out of 15 settled with both, onto using Flame and Toc Farm Fitz only used one of each and both have held, makes life alot easier if I can get these rates to continue!nondisclosed_email@example.com (mackie88)Mon, 16 May 2016 21:04:51 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443374,from=rss#post443374https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443374,from=rss#post443374I knew about New Zealand alright but wasn't aware that Australia had the same system. I should have guessed Australia had that system as Irish semen is being exported therenondisclosed_email@example.com (mckeague)Sat, 07 May 2016 21:25:38 +0000 Re: Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443363,from=rss#post443363https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443363,from=rss#post443363quote:mckeague wrote: I understand your connections with a certain company Moorcastle, but in reality do you actually see them seeking out bloodlines with lower milk and higher components for one small niche market?? The rest of the world seems driven by pure volume, its just not the same market here. There is more than one market for lower milk, higher components. A very large % of Australian farmers are paid on milk solids and docked on milk volume. Also don't forget New Zealand. The Kiwi index system isn't everyone's cup of tea, but it's what works for them. No I don't see them seeking out these specific types of lines though. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Craigalea)Fri, 06 May 2016 01:50:24 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443354,from=rss#post443354https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443354,from=rss#post443354Two very important traits where I'd be concerned are Body condition score which needs to be good - high fertility bulls will breed this anyway and then negative stature - cows have gotten too big, too awkward, too high a maintenance cost - our experience is the bigger cows have more problems. So all I want is - a decent level of milk packed with fat & protein, sky high fertility, cows that maintain good body condition and are average sized and capable of making 5 + lactations on a 375 day calving interval - find me that and I'll use the bull, maybe even sexed (trying to bring it back on topic)!!!! Th nondisclosed_email@example.com (mckeague)Tue, 03 May 2016 22:12:29 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443352,from=rss#post443352https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443352,from=rss#post443352Fair few of them would be lower fertility not all. Maybe more body condition score than stature relates to the fertility nondisclosed_email@example.com (Moorcastle)Mon, 02 May 2016 07:36:22 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443350,from=rss#post443350https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443350,from=rss#post443350Do the showring type bulls have the fertility though? Do they not tend to bring a lot of stature and thus a negative impact on herd life and fertility?nondisclosed_email@example.com (mckeague)Sun, 01 May 2016 18:50:20 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443343,from=rss#post443343https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443343,from=rss#post443343Every company should be taking note not just the one I have my faith in, market or no market the amount of genomic tested bulls in the world in a year there's bound to be one somewhere, and if not, why not? There are modern holstein bulls out there with lower milk and high % components with fertility etc, tho a lot of these seem to fall into showring type bulls rather than herd cows. It maybe wasn't totally the supply of product that made that company pull out of roi tho.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Moorcastle)Thu, 28 Apr 2016 15:46:24 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443341,from=rss#post443341https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443341,from=rss#post443341We may get lucky with Allround as the majority of his daughters in our herd are out of high fat dams but again I don't want it to reduce their ability!! I should also have added that we used him sexed!!! I understand your connections with a certain company Moorcastle, but in reality do you actually see them seeking out bloodlines with lower milk and higher components for one small niche market?? The rest of the world seems driven by pure volume, its just not the same market here. without naming names a certain company pulled out of ROI, and reading between the lines, in my opinion, it was because they just couldn't supply what the majority of irish dairy farmers want right nownondisclosed_email@example.com (mckeague)Thu, 28 Apr 2016 09:25:06 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443335,from=rss#post443335https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443335,from=rss#post443335When we used him he was 0.10% for both Fat & Protein and + 257kgs Milk (again on our irish base), though he has slipped a bit since but is still 0.10 & 0.07 respectively with a little more milk (+267kgs).  See this is back to country of origin and conversions again but allround is -% fat in UK now. And yes companies should take interest in what one irish dairy farmer feels they need on their Breeding programmenondisclosed_email@example.com (Moorcastle)Wed, 27 Apr 2016 17:18:44 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443332,from=rss#post443332https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443332,from=rss#post443332FYI Comestar Loic converts to 578kgs Milk, 29kgs Fat, 23kgs Protein, 0.11% Fat & 0.07% Protein on the irish system - definitely getting closer to what we require & I would agree that they are getting better at breeding for fertility & components, just too much milk volume in the proofs and we get charged for burning off that extra water!! We can get 49kgs combined f & p from 350kgs milk, so that's what outside genetics have to compete with. I should add that I don't think the suppliers of these genetics will be too concerned what one little irish dairy farmer feels about their product!! nondisclosed_email@example.com (mckeague)Tue, 26 Apr 2016 21:39:03 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443329,from=rss#post443329https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443329,from=rss#post443329Pataki is another flame son, his components are close to what Loics are. I was just curious to see how high they have to be in NA to convert well. I think North American genetics are starting to do a better job at breeding for components and fertility thanks to genomics, but there is a long way to go.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Keff)Tue, 26 Apr 2016 13:29:19 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443328,from=rss#post443328https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443328,from=rss#post443328Flame is coming up negative in protein on our conversions, and whether others agree or not I find the conversions pretty accurate. Loic is interesting as he has a good EBI figure €285 (though what I'm using this year has an average of €362 so he falls a little short, also his milk kgs figure of 578 is just way too high. Too much milk potential that I'm just not interested in trying to get out of them, it doesn't pay to chase litres in an A+B-C payment structure which is coupled with a climate where making 30%+ dry matter forages is extremely difficult and expensive. I can't find Pataki on our systems here so I can't comment on him. Don't get me wrong I'll use bulls from anywhere if they can fit the criteria I have, but its just not happening right nownondisclosed_email@example.com (mckeague)Tue, 26 Apr 2016 10:16:02 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443326,from=rss#post443326https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443326,from=rss#post443326Does any Vieuxsaule Flame blood work, like Comestar Loic or Welcome Pataki work in your program? We've had good conception using sexed semen on heifers though I don't use more because I can't handle too many heifers and the bulls I prefer don't have it, and the Sexed Ultra is supposed to be almost equal to conventional semen now.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Keff)Mon, 25 Apr 2016 21:37:51 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443324,from=rss#post443324https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443324,from=rss#post443324Yep fair call on Mars Allround, a little lower on the components than the other bulls - again it goes back to a time when we were shaky about moving completely away from type, and he had a pretty solid if not spectacular linear(rarely look at linears anymore). When we used him he was 0.10% for both Fat & Protein and + 257kgs Milk (again on our irish base), though he has slipped a bit since but is still 0.10 & 0.07 respectively with a little more milk (+267kgs). We had also used a bull from the same cow family (Mars Uphill) with excellent results. And he has a Fertility Sub-Index of €140 which is where I like to see them. not so many years ago we had a calving interval of 410 days, with a herd of Canadian and American genetics, its down to 375 days now and that is partly down to better genetics for fertility and partly down to being more ruthless and less sentimental. Feed inputs haven't changed much but milk sold/cow is climbing year on year so I feel we have to stick to the sire selection criteria we are on. Its also good to have these conversations too, I enjoy the back and forth!!!nondisclosed_email@example.com (mckeague)Mon, 25 Apr 2016 16:00:13 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443323,from=rss#post443323https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443323,from=rss#post443323I agree with your production drives production statement don't get me wrong. Again I'm just being curious here, but why is Mars allround in your criteria if your wanting to improve kilos and % components? Is it just for his fertility? Quite a milky bull too.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Moorcastle)Mon, 25 Apr 2016 15:44:54 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443321,from=rss#post443321https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443321,from=rss#post443321The issue is that we aren't averaging high enough in protein as we were traditionally a herd paid on a liquid contract. However we are now on an A+B-C payment system (Protein + Fat - charge to burn off the liquid!!) so we have to breed hard and heavy for F & P %, we don't have a problem with volume for our farm system. with that in mind the two bulls mentioned don't fit the criteria. Although I have to add, using a bull that won't do any harm just doesn't cut it, surely the goal is to use bulls that will always improve, if my protein is at 3.40% or 3.50% why stop there, 3.60% is worth more, gotta keep driving it on!!! Recent bulls that fit the criteria will most likely draw confused looks from anyone reading this as they are generally all irish bred bulls, but here ya go: Oman - stunning fertility, didn't hit the heights with protein but probably more to do with the level our herd was at at the time Morningview Legend - ok most will know him, and he was our 'tentative steps into breeding for fertility & protein' bull Mars Uphill - massive protein improvement Ralma Oman Crest - only have one but a super cow, wish I had more Castleblagh Odie - just calving in this year, but I like them so far The bulls below have calves/maidens on the ground: Mars Allround Parkduv Magnet Castleblagh Ruthless Curra Pluto Radney Levi 5 Ballinaborta Primo Longview Reliable Ballydehob Pat In the tank this year: Ballagh Prince Spice Longview Reliable Coolnasoon Art Clochrua Radney Levi + KYA (easy calving Angus - getting a lot more cows this year!) coming soon: Courtmatrix Maximus The goal is to hold the genetic potential for milk (we do not need to breed for any more milk volume)that's in the herd already but to vastly improve fat, protein & fertility. I can already see that with improved fertility milk sold per cow is increasing. I think that if we want to increase production (litres) it may be time to stop breeding for it, improved fertility will deliver the extra production Just out of interest what is the average calving interval for UK cows? - no matter how I try to search it I can't find it. And while you may not have noticed any problem getting cows in calf with really poor fertility indexes, all the research out there will point to it being a hell of a lot easier to get a cow with good genetics for fertility back in calf to maintain a 365 - 380 day calving interval, than it is with a cow with poor genetics - and in my experience I agree with them nondisclosed_email@example.com (mckeague)Mon, 25 Apr 2016 09:12:48 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443315,from=rss#post443315https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443315,from=rss#post443315Both bulls are protein improvers in kg and % if your already averaging high in protein they can't do you any harm. And as for the fertility maybe I fair was said too loosely, as proven bulls they are +4 in the uk, totally acceptable in my opinion. I've used a lot worse than +4, this will make you cringe when I say -17 and have not noticed any major problems getting them pregnant, it's back to the management and environment topic again. Just out of interest what bulls have you used recently that fit you criteria?nondisclosed_email@example.com (Moorcastle)Sun, 24 Apr 2016 07:01:12 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443314,from=rss#post443314https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443314,from=rss#post443314The old country of origin line is always trotted out when the conversions don't work to the advantage of the sales team!!!! If a bull won't leave me daughters with the potential to produce 3.50%+ Protein then he ain't going in my tank, the financial losses are too great in a tight market to take a risk and use a bull based on his country of origin proof especially where their base cow is lower on percentages than our base cow And with all due respect fairly positive for fertility doesn't cut it either I want a herd of cows that will deliver 550kg of Milk solids (at least 260kgs of this needs to be protein) from no more than 7,500 litres of milk - I don't think either of those bulls are capable of that. (I may be wrong but I'd like to see the proof) This may seem like low levels of production to some but at the costs of inputs here it works out to be the most profitable option for my farmnondisclosed_email@example.com (mckeague)Sat, 23 Apr 2016 22:19:41 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443313,from=rss#post443313https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443313,from=rss#post443313Conversions are great entertainment look up their us data, they are graze maxx bulls Brewmaster transmits 40kg fat and +0.22% fat, while not being negative in protein and fairly positive on fertility in his uk proof Grafeeti has always been a farm favourite, medium sized strong cows with good components and fertility, I'm sure there are milking Grafeeti daughters somewhere close to you to view.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Moorcastle)Sat, 23 Apr 2016 08:25:26 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443312,from=rss#post443312https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443312,from=rss#post443312Brewmaster is €55 on his Fertility Sub-Index, I wouldn't entertain anything less than €140. He is also negative for protein %, I could never use a bull that will breed daughters whose milk would be worth less than the base price -that's financial suicide!! Grafeeti is even lower for Fertility Sub-Index and also a negative on protein %, couldn't use him either We possibly have a different view on what type of bull fits a grazing system!!nondisclosed_email@example.com (mckeague)Fri, 22 Apr 2016 21:24:11 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443311,from=rss#post443311https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443311,from=rss#post443311Brewmaster and Grafeeti are available in the roi through wws as far as I'm aware, and both are sexed, they fit grazing systemsnondisclosed_email@example.com (Moorcastle)Thu, 21 Apr 2016 15:47:36 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443310,from=rss#post443310https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443310,from=rss#post443310You've hit the proverbial nail on the head there Moorcastle - fitting the criteria - sadly very very few bulls in this country that have sexed semen actually fit that criterianondisclosed_email@example.com (mckeague)Thu, 21 Apr 2016 12:10:26 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443309,from=rss#post443309https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443309,from=rss#post443309Don't get me wrong a lot of farms do have good runs of heifer calf rates with conventional, not being big headed but between mid December and end of January I had 23 calves born, 18 heifer calves, 13 of which to conventional semen, 3 to a stock bull and 2 to sexed semen(a second and third calver) If the fertility is good and you'd want the 20-25 block heifer calves and the rest beef surely that's a no brainer to try it Triple mix beef is advertised as a fertility resource, 3 different breeds in 1 straw compete to fertilise the egg, general chat up here would be if Hereford is in the straw it usually wins, good swimmers Availability of sexed semen not too much of an issue these days, yes totally agree, some companies may not sex their most popular bulls due to supply and demand, other companies will do, sometimes price may be questioned, but if you compare what isn't "hot" and available sexed, to what fits your criteria and is available sexed 10 maybe 15 euro a straw at the time would not be dear, plus sire conception rates, they say a bull +3.0 will save you £2 per point so £6 in total, obviously that's saved as less cows are repeating less straws used etc.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Moorcastle)Thu, 21 Apr 2016 11:54:59 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443308,from=rss#post443308https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443308,from=rss#post443308All very valid points Moorcastle What I see here in ROI is that the block spring calving herds with the best fertility don't use or don't need to use sexed to have enough heifers on the ground (in my discussion group anyway, but trend seems nationwide). However I would like to bet that if the conception rates with sexed were on a par with conventional semen, a lot of these farms would used sexed provided they could get the best bulls available, which given our population size here is quite difficult - the best bulls for a grass based system have such a demand for conventional that it doesn't pay to send them off to be sexed. Who wouldn't want to have their 20 - 25 (100 cow herd) replacements born in February and the remainder of the herd get beef, its win win Is triple mix beef proven to give higher conception rates? What breeds are generally used and are they all going to be short gestation breeds? Have used an angus bull and Blue last season, angus were dropping 10 days early, blues carrying on average 4 days - that makes a big difference to calving interval nondisclosed_email@example.com (mckeague)Thu, 21 Apr 2016 10:43:47 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443307,from=rss#post443307https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443307,from=rss#post443307Anyone could argue yes and no to block calving and sexed semen usage. Environment, management, semen preparation and nutrition are so variable. But for an example.. Say a 100 head spring calving cows are due in February to start, technically it is your most fertile cows due first, say they held to first or second service 9 month's ago, well if they transition well, don't get any infection, stay in positive energy, surely they are worth a shot of sexed semen at first or second heat. By time remainder of herd calves in, say end of April, those cows that calved in at the start will have probably had a service or two by now. Say June, those first cows could/should have been pregnancy scanned, that would give you a good guide as to how many pregnancies to sexed you have, and knowing that, then if you calve your animals in at 2 years old you know your going to have a block batch of heifers coming in the future, and it allows you to use more beef for cash flow and out of season heifer calves, and if you use triple mix beef, your later cows in theory should go in calf sooner and tighten the block period up. But again attention to detail, always ask yourself... is the cow clean, is she in positive energy? Has she sore feet? Has she had mastitis or a high cell count? Body condition good enough? All these wee things can add up to poor conception rates with any semen, sexed or not, but if the management and environment factors are fine... your good to go.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Moorcastle)Wed, 20 Apr 2016 19:44:27 +0000 Re: Sexed semen conception rates????https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443305,from=rss#post443305https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443305,from=rss#post443305do you not think that the risk with poorer conception rates is detrimental in a block calving scenario, Moorcastle? I agree with your points on how it should be used and we have got fairly good results in the past, but also poor results - the type of spring we get seems to have a large bearing on conception rates. not planning on using sexed again because we find if we get enough cows in calf early to dairy bulls we generally have enough heifer calves on the ground. And thankfully herd fertility seems to be improving so we are getting 70-75% of cows in calf to dairy. A few beef bred calves at the end of the calving season is good for cashflow I've just ensured we have the worst run of bull calves ever next year haven't I!! nondisclosed_email@example.com (mckeague)Wed, 20 Apr 2016 10:17:50 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443282,from=rss#post443282https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443282,from=rss#post443282Many more farmers turning to sexed semen to keep a closed herd and not buy in replacements, most men doing this tho do sweep with a beef bull/ai, some farms are going this route due to nitrates as well and others to get a future block calving pattern tightened up again.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Moorcastle)Mon, 18 Apr 2016 00:32:28 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443281,from=rss#post443281https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443281,from=rss#post443281Honestly.... no Last year I noticed a major increase in dairy semen being used. Some farmers may need replacements bought in, some farmers may still be expanding, some may be had a clear out due to tuberculosis and need to restock but the question is, if milk prices continue to fall, the price of stock will be cheap too, there will be plenty of animals out there for the commercial farmer at affordable prices.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Moorcastle)Mon, 18 Apr 2016 00:21:54 +0000 Re: Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443279,from=rss#post443279https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443279,from=rss#post443279quote:Moorcastle wrote: We had 50% on selected cows last year, not doing as many this year because we had a mega run of heifer calves from conventional semen this winter, maybe not a bad complaint but when you have 60 cows and 55 females not in milk in the current climate they can fairly eat into your milk cheque. Again high SCR rates need looked at before deciding on sexed semen, high fine for cows, lower heifers only for the best chances of pregnancies, obviously don't breed high scc, lame or low energy/ketotic/acidotic cows to sexed for best results. Do you not think that with the majority of dairy farmers using more beef on dairy because of the milk price at the moment, there is a potential market next year for more dairy heifers? nondisclosed_email@example.com (will maxwell)Sun, 17 Apr 2016 22:52:08 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443265,from=rss#post443265https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p443265,from=rss#post443265We had 50% on selected cows last year, not doing as many this year because we had a mega run of heifer calves from conventional semen this winter, maybe not a bad complaint but when you have 60 cows and 55 females not in milk in the current climate they can fairly eat into your milk cheque. Again high SCR rates need looked at before deciding on sexed semen, high fine for cows, lower heifers only for the best chances of pregnancies, obviously don't breed high scc, lame or low energy/ketotic/acidotic cows to sexed for best results.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Moorcastle)Fri, 15 Apr 2016 10:02:16 +0000