Non-use of antibiotics at dry off? https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/t14953 Runboard| Non-use of antibiotics at dry off? en-us Fri, 29 Mar 2024 13:21:47 +0000 Fri, 29 Mar 2024 13:21:47 +0000 https://www.runboard.com/ rssfeeds_managingeditor@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds managing editor) rssfeeds_webmaster@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds webmaster) akBBS 60 Re: Non-use of antibiotics at dry off?https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442887,from=rss#post442887https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442887,from=rss#post442887I have not been dry treating the last 6 months or more, so far no problem. Never have used teat sealantsnondisclosed_email@example.com (Swiggum Farms)Sun, 03 Jan 2016 23:37:16 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442880,from=rss#post442880https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442880,from=rss#post442880I did an experiment and dried off 50 cows with low cell counts and went no antibiotics and no teat seal to see how they go. I've never been comfortable with dry treating cows with nothing wrong. nondisclosed_email@example.com (bazza20)Sun, 03 Jan 2016 02:33:43 +0000 Re: Non-use of antibiotics at dry off?https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442806,from=rss#post442806https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442806,from=rss#post442806someone asked me recently if we were organic because we didn't dry cow which we are not and another friend with 500 cows said "gee you must save a heap of money not drycowing" Been here 21 years and barely buy more than 20 tubes of orbenin endure a year and then use most of it in eyes.nondisclosed_email@example.com (foxleigh)Sun, 13 Dec 2015 01:46:25 +0000 Re: Non-use of antibiotics at dry off?https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442804,from=rss#post442804https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442804,from=rss#post442804quote:foxleigh wrote: my husband believes that there is no point introducing foreign objects and substances into a healthy quarter. I would agree with that thinking. Vets were pushing dry tubing heifers. Ridiculous and irresponsible if you ask me. nondisclosed_email@example.com (bazza20)Sat, 12 Dec 2015 13:41:52 +0000 Re: Non-use of antibiotics at dry off?https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442803,from=rss#post442803https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442803,from=rss#post442803I think I only dry cowed about 8 older cows in the last 12 months. We supply premium milk to parmalat so our rolling BMCC is always under 200,000. We don't aim to be super low because they don't pay us anymore for our milk. my husband believes that there is no point introducing foreign objects and substances into a healthy quarter.nondisclosed_email@example.com (foxleigh)Sat, 12 Dec 2015 13:12:40 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442797,from=rss#post442797https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442797,from=rss#post442797I don't see why we should be compensated. overuse of antibiotics like blanket dry cow is bad practice. As much as we were encouraged to do it no one forced blanket dry cow on us. It's time is quickly coming to an end. Look at is as a positive rather than a negative. nondisclosed_email@example.com (bazza20)Fri, 11 Dec 2015 18:40:10 +0000 Re: Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442791,from=rss#post442791https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442791,from=rss#post442791quote:Big Bird wrote: quote:mckeague wrote: The one we had that got the bad E.coli infection after getting the teat seal only had an average SCC of 17!!! yes that is 1 and 7 expensive selective therapy if you ask me From some of the info at the meeting I'd say that as an industry if we don't take steps to cut blanket dry cow therapy the regulators will do it for us. I know its coming down the line Big Bird, I don't like it though....who is going to compensate farmers where losses of quarters (or cows) occurs? Is it just something we will have to live with?nondisclosed_email@example.com (mckeague)Fri, 11 Dec 2015 13:01:23 +0000 Re: Non-use of antibiotics at dry off?https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442790,from=rss#post442790https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442790,from=rss#post442790quote:errolston wrote: My vet says that there is a school of thought that you can have an scc that is too low. The thinking goes that these cows don't have enough "good bugs" to protect themselves. I would tend to agree Errolston, I have noticed that any really low cell count cows that are unfortunate enough to get mastitis always get it really bad! Somatic cells are there to fight bacteria so if you have very low levels there are not enough of them to fight a bad infection. nondisclosed_email@example.com (mckeague)Fri, 11 Dec 2015 12:59:49 +0000 Re: Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442789,from=rss#post442789https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442789,from=rss#post442789quote:mckeague wrote: The one we had that got the bad E.coli infection after getting the teat seal only had an average SCC of 17!!! yes that is 1 and 7 expensive selective therapy if you ask me From some of the info at the meeting I'd say that as an industry if we don't take steps to cut blanket dry cow therapy the regulators will do it for us. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Big Bird)Fri, 11 Dec 2015 11:42:30 +0000 Re: Non-use of antibiotics at dry off?https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442788,from=rss#post442788https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442788,from=rss#post442788My vet says that there is a school of thought that you can have an scc that is too low. The thinking goes that these cows don't have enough "good bugs" to protect themselves. nondisclosed_email@example.com (errolston)Fri, 11 Dec 2015 10:54:54 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442784,from=rss#post442784https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442784,from=rss#post442784The one we had that got the bad E.coli infection after getting the teat seal only had an average SCC of 17!!! yes that is 1 and 7 expensive selective therapy if you ask menondisclosed_email@example.com (mckeague)Thu, 10 Dec 2015 23:23:53 +0000 Re: Non-use of antibiotics at dry off?https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442762,from=rss#post442762https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442762,from=rss#post442762quote:bazza20 wrote: quote:Big Bird wrote: I've been to one of the Arla workshops on selective dry cow therapy today, and it would appear that we didn't get the best advice when we were persuaded to try it by our vet a couple of years ago. Criteria for suitable cows to use it on was too high, and there was a basic mistake in the application advice. We'll give it another try on a more limited basis and see how we get on. What was your criteria initially and what are the recommendations now. We were originally told anything with cell counts for the lactation all below 200 & no case of clinical mastitis. Advice yesterday was to start at 100 cell count limit and then increase that if things work OK. I know it sounds a bit lame today, but we weren't initially told about pinching the top of the teat to stop it just going up into the udder, only not to massage it up as we would antibiotic. (I had worked that mistake out for myself long before yesterday's meeting) nondisclosed_email@example.com (Big Bird)Thu, 10 Dec 2015 15:29:47 +0000 Re: Non-use of antibiotics at dry off?https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442755,from=rss#post442755https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442755,from=rss#post442755quote:Big Bird wrote: I've been to one of the Arla workshops on selective dry cow therapy today, and it would appear that we didn't get the best advice when we were persuaded to try it by our vet a couple of years ago. Criteria for suitable cows to use it on was too high, and there was a basic mistake in the application advice. We'll give it another try on a more limited basis and see how we get on. What was your criteria initially and what are the recommendations now. nondisclosed_email@example.com (bazza20)Thu, 10 Dec 2015 11:02:54 +0000 Re: Non-use of antibiotics at dry off?https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442746,from=rss#post442746https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442746,from=rss#post442746I've been to one of the Arla workshops on selective dry cow therapy today, and it would appear that we didn't get the best advice when we were persuaded to try it by our vet a couple of years ago. Criteria for suitable cows to use it on was too high, and there was a basic mistake in the application advice. We'll give it another try on a more limited basis and see how we get on.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Big Bird)Wed, 09 Dec 2015 21:06:40 +0000 Re: Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442695,from=rss#post442695https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442695,from=rss#post442695quote:bazza20 wrote: quote:MarkDay wrote: We've been doing it for 18 months. Anything with no cases of mastitis that lactation and with the four previous months under 150 cell count. Only using antibiotics on about 30% of dry cows if that and no problems at all. Are you using teat seal on those without antibiotics. Yes nondisclosed_email@example.com (MarkDay)Thu, 03 Dec 2015 19:58:59 +0000 Re: Non-use of antibiotics at dry off?https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442694,from=rss#post442694https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442694,from=rss#post442694I have been using Orb-seal only for several years and have very few issues.However some cows calve with slightly high cell count but usually clear up soon.Keeping dry cows clean is a big help.FWIWnondisclosed_email@example.com (OAKTOP ACRES)Thu, 03 Dec 2015 19:15:47 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442693,from=rss#post442693https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442693,from=rss#post442693The other problem is just because an antibiotic is used in food animal production and not human medicine NOW, doesn't mean it won't be used in human medicine eventually. So creating resistance still can have unforeseen consequences in the future. I know some are against the idea of limiting use of dry cow therapy... I'm just not sure we will have much of a choice. Studies have begun looking at the effects of dumping antibiotic milk into manure lagoons (manure storage), and how that effects microbes in the soil. nondisclosed_email@example.com (PADairymen)Thu, 03 Dec 2015 16:24:19 +0000 Re: Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442688,from=rss#post442688https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442688,from=rss#post442688quote:PADairymen wrote: Mackie88: Not sure it matters if it relates to human medicine for antibiotic resistance or not. Overuse of antibiotics will result in resistance for mastitis-causing pathogens. It isn't just a human issue. Plus dry cow therapy is pretty expensive, the use will most likely continue to decline for economic purposes, as well as public perception. Agree on the animal resistance, I was pressing my milk buyer to find out what their perception of it was, to see if they were going to make selective therapy compulsary. The extra money they spend on having a dedicated supplier group is so they can have hard data to go on when quoting in the press is what they say. If tommorow a study is released to show a link between over use of anti biotics in agriculture and human resistance they can hit back straight away with statements to turn negative PR into potentially postive eg. their suppliers use less than the national average amount of antibiotics. Linking johnes and chrones in humans is one they are pretty nervy about, everyone has to Johnes test with milk recording samples. Again so if the link is made they can put an ad in the newspapers tommorow saying their milk is sourced from 100% johnes free cows.nondisclosed_email@example.com (mackie88)Wed, 02 Dec 2015 16:30:27 +0000 Re: Non-use of antibiotics at dry off?https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442687,from=rss#post442687https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442687,from=rss#post442687Presumably dry cow therapy developed in response to a need for it. With the milk yields we are achieving now it seems unlikely that we can live without it.nondisclosed_email@example.com (errolston)Wed, 02 Dec 2015 10:56:45 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442685,from=rss#post442685https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442685,from=rss#post442685Mackie88: Not sure it matters if it relates to human medicine for antibiotic resistance or not. Overuse of antibiotics will result in resistance for mastitis-causing pathogens. It isn't just a human issue. Plus dry cow therapy is pretty expensive, the use will most likely continue to decline for economic purposes, as well as public perception. nondisclosed_email@example.com (PADairymen)Tue, 01 Dec 2015 17:50:47 +0000 Re: Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442684,from=rss#post442684https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442684,from=rss#post442684quote:MarkDay wrote: We've been doing it for 18 months. Anything with no cases of mastitis that lactation and with the four previous months under 150 cell count. Only using antibiotics on about 30% of dry cows if that and no problems at all. Are you using teat seal on those without antibiotics. nondisclosed_email@example.com (bazza20)Tue, 01 Dec 2015 17:31:29 +0000 Re: Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442682,from=rss#post442682https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442682,from=rss#post442682We've been doing it for 18 months. Anything with no cases of mastitis that lactation and with the four previous months under 150 cell count. Only using antibiotics on about 30% of dry cows if that and no problems at all.nondisclosed_email@example.com (MarkDay)Tue, 01 Dec 2015 15:15:54 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442681,from=rss#post442681https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442681,from=rss#post442681I've been thinking about doing it. If we do I won't be using teat sealer, I think it just asks for issues. If it was possible to be totally sterile it would be ok but cows don't know to stay still and not kick shit everywhere. nondisclosed_email@example.com (bazza20)Tue, 01 Dec 2015 07:24:41 +0000 Re: Non-use of antibiotics at dry off?https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442679,from=rss#post442679https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442679,from=rss#post442679quote:mckeague wrote: Is anyone practising this? It is getting a lot of press over here that cows with consistently low cell counts will get by with just a teat sealer and no antibiotic tube at drying off. Supposed to help with the problem of bacteria becoming immune to the drugs. Tried it with an empty cow that was being dried off for fattening.....worst case of e.coli I have seen, will be lucky if she pulls through, needless to say the antibiotic tubes will be back in play for the next one regardless of her cell count history I had exactly the same experience sickest cow I've ever had with mastitis, and that was with me following the vets protocols to the finest detail when tubing the cow with sealant! Our Tesco supplier group had a mastitis meeting with Rob Smith (University of Liverpool) who is their farm vet on the uni farm where Tesco carry out various studies. I quizzed him about the wisdom of selective dry cow therapy and whether or not it was going to become compulsory. His answer was the type of antibiotic used in dry cow tubes is not of any worry as far as human resistance is concerned (with exception of Cephaguard i think it was) and that resistance was largely down to over prescription in humans rather than Agriculural over use. In saying that the review of our milk contract has changed what data we have to record, with a tally for any selective dry cow treatments now one. Also helps improve your "score" they are using to sort out their producers into best to worst! nondisclosed_email@example.com (mackie88)Mon, 30 Nov 2015 22:17:05 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442677,from=rss#post442677https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442677,from=rss#post442677At some point agriculture may be forced to give up some antibiotics, blanket dry cow therapy will be the first to go in my estimation. nondisclosed_email@example.com (PADairymen)Mon, 30 Nov 2015 19:22:31 +0000 Re: Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442669,from=rss#post442669https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442669,from=rss#post442669We tried it a couple of years ago and it was a fair sized disaster. I don't think I got the teat sealant application right, too much went up into the udder to be properly effective. I'm about to try again on a very limited basis as it looks like Arla are going to move us in that direction.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Big Bird)Fri, 27 Nov 2015 22:41:09 +0000 Re:https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442668,from=rss#post442668https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442668,from=rss#post442668I've done a few batches of cows this autumn and got on OK.nondisclosed_email@example.com (WDB9)Fri, 27 Nov 2015 22:20:46 +0000 Non-use of antibiotics at dry off?https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442667,from=rss#post442667https://bcowtalk.runboard.com/p442667,from=rss#post442667Is anyone practising this? It is getting a lot of press over here that cows with consistently low cell counts will get by with just a teat sealer and no antibiotic tube at drying off. Supposed to help with the problem of bacteria becoming immune to the drugs. Tried it with an empty cow that was being dried off for fattening.....worst case of e.coli I have seen, will be lucky if she pulls through, needless to say the antibiotic tubes will be back in play for the next one regardless of her cell count historynondisclosed_email@example.com (mckeague)Fri, 27 Nov 2015 16:00:27 +0000