Runboard.com
You're welcome.

runboard.com       Register for a free global account (learn about it) |
Log in: (), globally (lost password?)


Page:  1  2  3  4  5  6  7 

 
PEOVEREYE Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

EX95
Global user

Registered: 02-2005
Posts: 629
Karma: 7 (+7/-0)
Reply | Quote
OOPFs Worthwhile Investment?


Sperrin good advice especially in this hot weather when cows are lazy at filling up.
Also got to agree mixers even old and jiggered can be useful i milked for a couple of people who left there feeder in one spot mixed it up dumped it out in a pile then transferred the mix to rings .When we milked at my parents we piled the forage up then mixed it with the bucket and dumped it down the barrier that bit of "conditioning" as against solid lumps of silage helped intake no end . Again anything just to tweak up the overall production of a unit without big cost.
15/7/2006, 17:16 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
broa Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info


Global user

Registered: 12-2003
Location: Martebo
Posts: 2633
Karma: 54 (+55/-1)
Reply | Quote
Re: OOPFs Worthwhile Investment?


a friend of mine bale all his silage into roundbales and than, before feeding them, he put them through a chopper. he say he wish he could chop at harvest but he has no silo and the size and shape of his fields would make it akward to tow a chopper around.
the reason for this is, he has noticed a considerable increase in intake with chopped silage over round bales.
his herd average on 100 cows is close to 12000kgs and test is 3.9 - [sign in to see URL] and 3.3 - [sign in to see URL].
with chopped silage it would be easier to achieve a "poor mans TMR" using the bucket.


Last edited by broa, 15/7/2006, 19:29


---
"Dum spiro, spero"

Cicero
15/7/2006, 19:27 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
Big Bird Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Cowtalk Staff
Global user

Registered: 06-2003
Posts: 3421
Karma: 39 (+40/-1)
Reply | Quote
Re: OOPFs Worthwhile Investment?


We've never had a problem with DA's in all the years we've used the feeders. Our feeder program allows us to put in a low starting feed level and then can automatically increase that by an amount we can select over a period we can also select. Normally we start a cow approx 10 kg below what we expect her to need and increase that by 0.5 kg/day over 20 days.

Although the bullying is an issue, a bully cow has to work very hard to get any significant extra cake. The feed program trickle feeds [sign in to see URL] at a time then gives time to eat. If a cow gets bullied out there shouldn't be any more than [sign in to see URL] in the feeder even if the fed cow has eaten nothing of its latest trickle.
15/7/2006, 21:29 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
foxleigh Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Ex97
True blue dinky-di maverick

Global user

Registered: 06-2003
Location: southern,oz
Posts: 2926
Karma: 33 (+33/-0)
Reply | Quote
OOPFs Worthwhile Investment?


I remeber being in england and watching cows belting the oopfs when they had eaten their ration .With a long queue behind them waiting.
my parents used to feed freshly rolled oats all they could eat while they were being milked and their cows were always in magnicent shape!I cant tell you what they produced as they dont herdtest but at the end of the year they always boast a profit [sign in to see URL] also have adlib straw 365 days in rings outside the dairy plus grass.
In recent times I have seen that markwell have oopfs and there is a constant parade of cows to and from the pasture ,which by aussie standards was [sign in to see URL] they always fed what appears to be magnicent tmr just after the night milking
as well.

regarding batch feeding - it is obvious that my life experiances are a lot different to yours but when I spent 7 years milking up to 250 grade holsteins alone on a very ordinery pasture base with lots of rushes and kylinga couch and a bale of hay or 2 when the boss felt like putting it out the only thing I had control of was strip grazing and grain mix from feeders and my cows finished up fat when i dried them off on their 6kgs everyday of the year.
profitible I dont know but I got paid for 7 years as did the vet,produce store and feed mill.

15/7/2006, 22:42 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
FiringOnAllFour Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Ex97
Cyborg

Global user

Registered: 01-2004
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 2203
Karma: 43 (+43/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: OOPFs Worthwhile Investment?


I admire some of the work done at hillsborough in ironing out things - the calving weight of heifers is one good example. Other simple things that they've just discovered doesn't seem to embarrass them at all. This is 2006 and they are only discovering the link between meal and dead fresh-calved cows!

If I was in your position, I'd probably be thinking the same way. OOPFs do a job. You are aware of their limitations considering our silage making opportunities. I don't think that your herd would make any more money with a wagon as it stands. And thats the bottom line.

16/7/2006, 19:13 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
foxleigh Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Ex97
True blue dinky-di maverick

Global user

Registered: 06-2003
Location: southern,oz
Posts: 2926
Karma: 33 (+33/-0)
Reply | Quote
OOPFs Worthwhile Investment?


all comes back to management and profitibility
16/7/2006, 22:25 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
MarkDay Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Head Administrator
Global user

Registered: 06-2003
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3653
Karma: 31 (+33/-2)
Reply | Quote
Re: OOPFs Worthwhile Investment?


I'm very surprised by the negative comments about OOPF, some of which are based in my opinion on a lack of experience and a very powerful marketing force behind the green machines! I should get my Dad to reply to this topic as he has been working with them for near on thirty [sign in to see URL] it might take him another 30 years to type the reply!
 For those of you those are adamant that OOPF's are 2nd best to TMR I would like your opinion on what you think is the maximum milk from forage possible on a simple OOPF system compared to TMR?

I should like to address some of the problems brought up with feeders and try to give my opinion on solutions to those problems based on our experience.

A) Bullying. This doesn’t happen with our cows and we run the entire herd as one from 2 yr old heifers upwards. I think BB gave the answer to this already in that you program the feeders to dispense small quantities at a time. This means that if a cow is forced out there is little or nothing to be gained by the bully. The stalls should also be full length so that the cows can’t belt the current occupants from the side
B) Abusing the feeders to gain extra feed. Simple, just detach the hopper from the main framework so that when a cow bashes the feeder she gains no reward. Make sure the hopper is sited out of reach or is protected from the cows.
C) DA’s. This is a strange one! Of course if you bung concentrates into a new calved cow you are asking for trouble and it’s hardly the fault of the feeders! There is the option to stagger the ration automatically as BB said although we don’t use that facility as we prefer to treat each cow as an individual and ration them as we see fit.
D) Cows not getting time to use the feeders in summer. This is not always easy but it is possible. The location and number of feeding stations is important. The stations should be located in an easily accessible location with plenty of room around them. If the cows are given access to the feeders straight after milking then the first to be milked will get their chance and the last cows will get a go so long as they are held back for maybe half an hour after milking. Often we leave the gates open for a couple of hours on an evening so the cows can drift out as they please.
E) Poor forage intake. Again I don’t see why the feeders get blamed for this! There has always been a misconception (according to Dad) that OOPF’s are there to get as much concentrates into the cow as possible. This is nonsense. The feeders are there so that every cow can be rationed individually. This is some thing that cannot be achieved with TMR . You can ration each cow as you like from zero to whatever! Our cows get less than two tones of concentrate a year on fairly high yields. The maximum our highest yielding cows (50kg+) get would be 15kg split between the parlour and the feeders.
It is true with modern contracting machinery and techniques it is possible for us to make consistently good dry silage but that was not always the case. Certainly not up until maybe 8-10 years ago.
My Dad has made his name from getting milk from forage and he wouldn’t dream of going onto TMR to get a better forage intake. At the moment we feed grass silage and whole crop wheat through a high feeder that doesn’t mix. One thing that helps intakes is to feed fresh silage twice a day during each milking. The cows go straight from the parlour for either the silage or the feeders and if the OOPF’s are full they don’t hang around long, they go to the silage and come back to the feeders later .In winter there is no problem at all as the feeds are split up over 24 hours so they are never in long anyway.



Foxleigh ,why would you want your cows fat?
The beauty of being able to ration cows indivdually means you should never get fat cows-unless they are going for the chop of course.

Sperrin,Why do you think TMR is so superior to OOPF's.

Broa, Why would you want to switch from a simple system to an Expensive complicted,labour intensive space intensive TMR system???
If you want high yeilds for the sake of it then TMR maybe your answer but if it is economical efficency you want then I really don't think TMR can beat a well managed OOPF system!!

Dairyland you may of gathered that I would recommend OOPF'S!!





Last edited by MarkDay, 17/7/2006, 19:01


---
Bickleygate holsteins

"I have not failed 1000 times, I have discovered a 1000 ways that do not work"-Thomas Edison
17/7/2006, 19:00 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
broa Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info


Global user

Registered: 12-2003
Location: Martebo
Posts: 2633
Karma: 54 (+55/-1)
Reply | Quote
Re: OOPFs Worthwhile Investment?


quote:

MarkDay wrote:Broa, Why would you want to switch from a simple system to an Expensive complicted,labour intensive space intensive TMR system???
If you want high yeilds for the sake of it then TMR maybe your answer but if it is economical efficency you want then I really don't think TMR can beat a well managed OOPF system!!



yes, the OOPF is a simple but, in my experience, a unreliable system that requires constant babysitting and disconecting the hoppers hasn't stopped our cows from abusing them, it only reduced the abuse by half at best.
seven years after we purchased the feeders, DeLaval claimed they could no longer supply spare parts but if we where to buy the latest model our problems would be solved.
having to manufacture our own spare parts have been both tedious and frustrating.

I have also grown ever more tired of the constant tinkering with individual rations
always having to remember to let the ration dwindle down to nil for the cows about to be dried of and start lead feeding the cows about to calve as well as adjusting almost every ration after each milk test.
and all along you have no idea how much forage each individual will eat so the rations are pretty much guess work anyway.

Yes, TMR is a more expensive system but what I'd be looking for is a fully automated system so it would not be more labour intensive.
the Danish company Cormall have a system that is made up by mainly "standard" parts so if some electrical part need to be replaced your local electrician should be able to aid you. the mechanics is rather simple and robust and shouldn't cause too much trouble for a handy man when repairs be needed.
the automated system would not be more space intensive, it would only require a relocation of the different silos we have for the OOPFs and you'll free the space used by the feeders and can use it for more cows. in our case four more cows

with a TMR system you don't have to worry about cows not getting their concentrates and you don't have to spend time training first calvers to use the feeders.
the cows don't have to wait in line for their turn at the feeder and since waiting in line is not something that is in their nature to do, I think it is a good thing if it can be avoided.

I also think it is a more flexible system allowing you an easier way of using feed stuffs that would require extra trips down the feed bunk otherwise.
I think a well managed TMR system should mean less metabolic disorders, more milk and healthier cows
but most of all you'll know that each mouthfull the cows are munching down will contain the mix you want her to eat so even if you don't know the exact amount she'll eat, at least you'll know it'll be balanced.

I don't know if I'd achieve better economical efficency but I think it would be a close call.




Last edited by broa, 18/7/2006, 14:10


---
"Dum spiro, spero"

Cicero
17/7/2006, 23:40 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
FiringOnAllFour Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Ex97
Cyborg

Global user

Registered: 01-2004
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 2203
Karma: 43 (+43/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: OOPFs Worthwhile Investment?


I'd agree that it is probably six of one, half a dozen of the other as far as economy goes. No doubt, the OOPFs are cheap to set up, esp if your farm can get away without a handler.

As far as feeding individually goes, it is remarkable how well the cows do that on TMR. A cow that is milking less just eats less.

Like I said before, I don't blame OOPFs for poor forage intake, I blame wet silage, which we will have unavoidably from time to time in NI. And thats when the substitution occurs and your milk from forage goes to pot. A wagon may not increase the intake of a low-intake silage a great deal, but as Broa said, they are less likely to blow the stomach off if they can't get the meal on its own.

18/7/2006, 8:22 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
Big Bird Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Cowtalk Staff
Global user

Registered: 06-2003
Posts: 3421
Karma: 39 (+40/-1)
Reply | Quote
Re: OOPFs Worthwhile Investment?


Our cows don't abuse the feeders. Cake is delivered by a horizontal auger, the end of which is covered by a spring loaded flap worked by a solenoid switch, so the flap only lifts when the auger turns. No amount of abuse will deliver extra feed, so the cows just don't do it.



We can still treat cows individually with the early lactation build up. Starting amount, daily increase, and days of increase can all be set for each individual cow. We decide what we believe each cow should be built up to and then review the feed once they've reached full production.
18/7/2006, 8:43 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 


Reply

Page:  1  2  3  4  5  6  7 





You are not logged in (login)
Back To Top

Disclaimer: Any views expressed on this site are not necessarily the views of the owner or any of the sponsors of Cowtalk..

Google
WWW COWTALK