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Ex97
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Re: Cow Makers v Cow Enhancers in RED!!!!!!


I just thought with all this discussion on red,brown red,black red,black I would throw in a few examples from the actual field.
next stupid Q has anyone ever seen a brindle holstein?
28/11/2004, 20:34 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Re: Cow Makers v Cow Enhancers in RED!!!!!!


quote:

canuk wrote:

Mark - Just an idea maybe all this R&W stuff could go in the color breeds section, it may save you some room, and might help to stop annoying some of the more educated posters.




I don't think the educated members are annoyed it's Bob that seems to have the problem!!
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I'll move the red threads then.

---
Bickleygate holsteins

"I have not failed 1000 times, I have discovered a 1000 ways that do not work"-Thomas Edison
28/11/2004, 20:42 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
foxleigh Profile
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Ex97
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Re: Cow Makers v Cow Enhancers in RED!!!!!!


oh , just had a thought (always dangerous)!
given that ayrshires have red/black markings are blackred holsteins (like inspirations) really ayrshires?
28/11/2004, 20:50 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Re: Cow Makers v Cow Enhancers in RED!!!!!!


quote:

foxleigh wrote:

I just thought with all this discussion on red,brown red,black red,black I would throw in a few examples from the actual field.
next stupid Q has anyone ever seen a brindle holstein?




 Yep.. It was years ago. It had red/black vertical stripes like a [sign in to see URL] a BR. Was by a Telstar son x Oakridges Reflection Sovereign x blue friesianx blue friesian x shorthorn.
28/11/2004, 21:01 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Re: Cow Makers v Cow Enhancers in RED!!!!!!


Thats an interesting question, Could the BR* gene come from the Ayrshire. Then that would explain a few things. I don't feel the BR* is a Junk Gene that the majority seems to think. Just another type of RED (BROWN).
28/11/2004, 21:48 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Re: Cow Makers v Cow Enhancers in RED!!!!!!


Bullpen - Burkgov Inka De Kol was from a mating eagerly awaited by his owners. When he was born, one of them exclaimed, "Where did these leopard spots come from." (Or something to that effect) He went on to become a prominent sire. Got mostly white offspring. It seems he got sons with really good type or high production, but hardly ever both. We had a son of his at Select (fom the 5th dam of Integrity) that was nearly all white. He did reasonably well, made Gold Medal, I believe.

Where did it come from? Well, believe it or not, cattle models found in Egyptian tombs from 4,000 years ago were various colors of red, red & white, black & white, and spotted just like Burkgov and Juliet.

You have to go back a ways to find where the color patterns come from (not back to Egypt though)The Shaw's Crete Tidy line from Maine was very strong for white heads. We don't see much of that breeding now, but as popular as it was at one time, there has to be a lot of decendents in the Eastern US.

Ivanhoe did have some very black offspring. And crossing him up got some too black to register. However, probably a lot of solid black came from the Burkes at Pabst. In the 1950's and 1960's black bodied Holsteins were so popular that it was hard to sell a white bull or win a show with a white cow, until the great white cow, Pat Willow Lake Victory came along. Not sure of her exact name.

Some of the earily imports from Holand were speckled and that has carried on down to present times. Elevation had a number of offspring with a "7" in their forehead. Inspiration threw a lot of calves with a white blaze face and a black spot in the middle. I don't think color pattern is tied to either type or production. But we all seem to have a color that we prefer. And it's interesting to trace the color patterns in certain bloodlines.
29/11/2004, 6:56 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Re: Cow Makers v Cow Enhancers in RED!!!!!!


Haven't the German's done some DNA analysis that postulates (look it up in the dictionary if you don't understand the word, I can't type any slower, I already type like a vulture [sign in to see URL] and swoop! emoticon ) that the BR gene comes from the Dairy/ Brown Swiss.

Somebody in Telstar's backline had a midnight dalliance with one of Jane of Vernon's ancestors/descendants (rural legend has it that Jane had a bit of Jersey in her background -that silky quality had to come from somewhere . . .)

---
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29/11/2004, 7:43 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Re: Cow Makers v Cow Enhancers in RED!!!!!!


What about Rotate, Melwood and Airliner but not Bellwood or Zebo. I wonder which is most dominant white or black.
Valiant sons Inspiration, Lindy, Vanguard and Counsellor all white speckled but then Royalty and Thor black.

Bell must have been a real clash of Burkgov and Ivanhoe but Ivanhoe won through. Blackstar was a couple of crosses of Ivanhoe away from the lighter Chief lines.

Anyway what other breed characteristics would go with colour. For example would the Black Ivanhoe influence mean later maturing cows with good legs and feet or the opposite like Mascot. Would white mean high milk, low componants early maturing Chief or high componants Burkgov?
Probably impossible to draw any conclusions.
But it was amazing how many traditionalists in the UK would not like any White because they were thought to be the extreme type of holstein and coat colour especially black became desirable for no apparant obvious or factual reasons - other than they could pass as friesians.

Last edited by Bullpen, 29/11/2004, 16:32
29/11/2004, 12:41 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Re: Cow Makers v Cow Enhancers in RED!!!!!!


I still hear about the importance of black cattle from customers. One of them, I know not to present with anything too white, as he will surely reject it. Some don't like the extreme kind, and they think white typifies NAmerican blood.

I have been told by beef finishers that white Holstein bulls don't finish as well as black ones! Complete rubbish obviously. But then there are fools that will give 50 quid more for a Holstein bull calf if it is announced in the ring as a simmental and has a white head!

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29/11/2004, 21:08 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
foxleigh Profile
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Ex97
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Re: Cow Makers v Cow Enhancers in RED!!!!!!


actually a lot of farmers prefer the black holstein as they believe that skin color leads to less problems with sun [sign in to see URL] have seen a dramatic rise in 3rd eyelid and eye cancer in general in the last few years. When we had fleckvieh with eye cancer it was relatively easy to breed for eye patches ,which bought skin pigmentation with [sign in to see URL] are a different kettle of fish! We have solid black headed animals getting eye cancer on the third eyelid which is still white.A lot of holsteins have a real open loose 3rd eyelid and a lot now have a flat rather then hooded [sign in to see URL] now there is 1 imported 2nd calver (high country) and several 3rd calves who look like they need their 3rd eyelids taken out soon.(leader, apollo vanguard).there is probably 3 one eyed cows in the herd at the moment and one who cant have her eye removed and thus has no meat value [sign in to see URL] I would say for some of us that skin pigmentation and hair color is of economic importance.
29/11/2004, 21:13 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 


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