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EX95
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Production proofs


What are your thoughts on this, Are the current production proofs based mainly on TMR rations? Like will you still see the increases a bull is supose to give you on say a grass based feeding program. There are lots of bulls that are at the top of production index and lots of you that pasture feed complain that there offspring dont milk. is there a Index link between high production bulls and feeding top Hay, Grain and silage Vs. Grass based producers?
14/5/2004, 6:41 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Re: Production proofs


High milk bulls tend to breed high milk daughters regardless of the feeding system. Under extensive conditions with varying energy intakes, high production cows that 'milk of their backs' can often find it difficult to get back in calf timeously compared to cows that milk hard while holding some condition, but that’s another topic altogether.

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14/5/2004, 7:49 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Ex 97 2E
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Re: Production proofs


 Low index breeds low production , High index breeds high production regardless of feeding system. The Langhill project proved this a fair few years ago.

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100 cows North East UK ... no staff employed.

8500kgs 4.30% fat 3.33% protein 82 points average on type.

Current sires Lucente,Principal,Jojoba, Selected young bulls.
14/5/2004, 8:58 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Ex97
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Re: Production proofs


Yes this was proven by Langhill as Will said.

Which is why the interbull sham of differing correlations between countries based on environmental factors is a complete nonsense.
14/5/2004, 9:28 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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EX95
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Re: Production proofs


But Say a Dairyman in Ca. Has a 92 lb. herd ave. And a guy in another country only has a 50 lb ave. on grass. The guy on grass has higher test. so do they just average everything. And dont some cattle do better on grass then others. I know that an uncle i have in the Azores started importing some high end cattle from Europe and they performed less and lasted less time on there grass program then there tougher home bred [sign in to see URL]'nt it be right for each bull to be sampled in the country that they would be sold in first before each country uses the bull. I don't think I would go by a UK proof, and I'm very werry about the Canada proof. They claim a bull 1500 K. of milk so that should be 3,000 lbs here. Then you look at there US proof and there 800 lbs why doesent that convert over like it should. And I think that a lot of you guys in Europe go by our US proofs and are disipointed by some of the bulls. Why is it that they have great production here and you guys don't do so well with them and Vise versa
15/5/2004, 3:12 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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EX95
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Re: Production proofs


Honestly I don't put a lot of stock in production proofs. My motto is and always has been breed for type feed for production (not to start this debate again). I think that as a rule milk proofs as far as actual pounds or kilos of milk is inacurate and unreliable.
15/5/2004, 3:34 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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EX95
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Re: Production proofs


If proofs are so full of crap then why do they use them. And why would there Type proof be diferent then there production proof. it is gathered in the same respect. There has to be a way to acuratly judge a bulls offspring?
15/5/2004, 3:41 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Ex97
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Re: Production proofs


Have no problem with production proofs, a high milk sire from the UK, should by law of averages be a high milk sire anywhere. I don't understand how they come up with some of these conversions, from one country to another, and I have come to realize I probably never will.
15/5/2004, 4:07 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Re: Production proofs


There are many reasons why you can't just multiply the Canadian figures by 2.2 to convert to lbs. Different bases for one thing. America uses PTAs: Predicted Transmitting Abilities. Canada uses Estimated Breeding Values. Canadian proofs have to be divided in half to get Estimated Transmitting Abilities because the bull is only 50% of the mating, the US has already done that.

Last edited by smous, 15/5/2004, 10:11


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15/5/2004, 9:39 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Ex97
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Re: Production proofs


Agricultural Research Institute in Northern Ireland has also found higher production genetics to outperform their lower counterparts across all systems.

Whether or not a high production animal is suited to a low production system is for debate. However, it makes sense to me that an animal is most likely to give a good overall performance when bred into a similar kind of system from which her genetics came.
15/5/2004, 12:39 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 


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