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Ex97
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Re: Production proofs


Smous - Thank you, for putting that in terms I, and I'm sure others can understand.
15/5/2004, 14:34 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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.
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Re: Production proofs


Today's top bulls have the genetic POTENTIAL to excell in all systems.

You could compare a thoroughbred and a plow [sign in to see URL] former will outrun the latter. But if forced to survive under the most adverse conditions, go with the plow horse.

Actually some people should be jailed for the way they treat animals... under those conditions... they shouldn't be allowed to keep any animals.
15/5/2004, 15:08 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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EX95
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Re: Production proofs


Are we to take it the reference to Thoroughbred would refer the same to Show Cows

Whereas, Plowhorses would refer to Hardworking Commercial Index Cows?
17/5/2004, 22:13 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Ex97
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Re: Production proofs


I think the reference meant that the thoroughbred was today's highly tuned production cow. Given the management to suit her she will produce an incredible ammount of milk and produce a profit for her owner.

The plow horse was the cow bred to survive in a low input system. She will produce some milk, generally good components and go back in calf easily, from little or no feeding.

Nobody was talking about show cows, as far as i saw. I think we may have had that argument before. the debate is not show v. index, but about which cows will suit which systems.

---
Alan Armstrong
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17/5/2004, 23:09 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Ex97
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Re: Production proofs


quote:


. Given the management to suit her she will produce an incredible ammount of milk and produce a profit for her owner.

The plow horse was the cow bred to survive in a low input system. She will produce some milk, generally good components and go back in calf easily, from little or no feeding.
  are you suggesting that a plowhorse is not profitible?
17/5/2004, 23:13 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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EX95
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Re: Production proofs


quote:

amlkman wrote:

If proofs are so full of crap then why do they use them. And why would there Type proof be diferent then there production proof. it is gathered in the same respect. There has to be a way to acuratly judge a bulls offspring?




Honestly when selecting type bulls the best way to look at them to is by their actual values. The linears are based on deviations in comparisson to herdmates, thus making them unreliable.
18/5/2004, 1:58 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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EX95
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Re: Production proofs


Then why are they used? Why is there not a better program in place? The Plow horse type of cow is profitable in the right situation. Where as the Race horse type is also. Thats what I'm getting at with this thread. Are some of the bulls you guys use over seas from us are they the Race horse type that dont do good in your situation but great in ours. Or are they the plow horse type that seem to last. A few of each? More of one then the other?
18/5/2004, 3:01 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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EX95
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Re: Production proofs


Couldn't tell you what they do overseas since I'm from Wisconsin, and I don't know why there isn't a better program.
18/5/2004, 4:23 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Re: Production proofs


You are on the money amlkman. All the herds I sell into are on pasture 365 days a year, with varying levels of silage and concentrate (grain) supplementation, more and more of them batch calve seasonally. Most of them split calve, +-1/3 of the herd in Autumn (Feb, March) and the remainder in Spring to coincide with our 'spring flush' of grass.

In general but not exclusively dairyman want the more robust, medium size of cow with good components and medium milk (very few disregard milk altogether). Management traits have become hugely important their low heritability and low reliability on first crop notwithstanding. This would be regarded as your 'plough horse' type of cow and yes you can make a profit out of her - a lot of profit. We have probably had our best two years ever for profitability on this system. Guys feeding TMR in the hinterland with high input costs and declining milk price are in the poo and selling out fast.

One of the most profitable herds I work with milks 450 cows, split calving on pastures and flat rate feeds five kilograms (11 lbs) concentrate regardless of days in milk or production. They average 7500 kgs (16 500 lbs) milk a lactation.

Sons of Patron and Juror fit the system, sons of Winchester and Bellwood don't get much of a look in. High milk bulls that breed stature, narrow front ends and deeper udders are out. Duster, Lava and Mountain daughters have done outstandingly well here, their daughters are medium size, milk well and get into calf easily. A Manfred son with good udders is what we need now.

Very few conspiracy theorists here, they and I believe in linears and it has been our experience that well proven first crop US bulls live up to them. I can think of no better alternative or any reason to reinvent the wheel.


---
WWS-SA
18/5/2004, 6:32 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Ex97
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Re: Production proofs


quote:

foxleigh wrote:

quote:


. Given the management to suit her she will produce an incredible ammount of milk and produce a profit for her owner.

The plow horse was the cow bred to survive in a low input system. She will produce some milk, generally good components and go back in calf easily, from little or no feeding.
  are you suggesting that a plowhorse is not profitible?



No, both cows produce profit, when well managed in a system to suit them. The problem comes when someone tries to cram them into systems that don't suit them.

Research in S ireland has shown that High index / production holsteins are hard to get in calf if you put them on grass in a wet Irish summer and give them no other feeding. Once again research proves what 99% of farmers knew anyway.

---
Alan Armstrong
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18/5/2004, 8:26 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 


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