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Will Richardson Profile
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Re: CATTLE BREEDING....... ART OR SCIENCE?


All are going to be bred to similar bulls .... the high classified group need a bucket full of milk 2 are Roycedale Approvals,1 is a Storm,1 is an Occonors Darwin and 1 is by a young bull that gave only 4900kg as a heifer and scored [sign in to see URL] you can see 4 carry Inspiration blood so I will have to nail an udder on as well.

 In the high production group 2 are Gibbons 1 is a Basar 1 is a Dixellen Design and 1 is by a young [sign in to see URL] are by bulls that sire fantastic udders so I will nail an udder onto these as well.

  None of these cattle lack frame and all have sufficient body depth.I dont really see any point in taking milk off high yielding cows just for an extra point or 2 on type.

If milk prices for the future go the way I think they will then we have to be able to produce milk profitably at somewhere between 14.5 and 17 ppl then its a straight case of driving yields onwards and upwards in order to stay afloat.


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Looking after 100 cows and youngstock in North East UK + 100 acres wheat ... no staff employed.

8500kgs 4.30% fat 3.33% protein 82 points average on type

NO links to any company whatsoever.
8/12/2003, 21:16 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Re: CATTLE BREEDING....... ART OR SCIENCE?


Will,

If you have no interest in breeding VG and EX cows and truely believe that your G and GP cows will both out-yield and outlive them, why classify?
Afterall, it creates one more cost, and a line of goods and good pluses in a pedigree is not going to add value!! You would have to rely on your production information to do that.
9/12/2003, 0:36 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Re: CATTLE BREEDING....... ART OR SCIENCE?


maybe because it is an independant /objective view of a cows strengths and [sign in to see URL] all who has time to stand around and look at a cow and break her down in points except for when the classifier comes .we tend to only notice those cows that have something wrong with them once they are in a herd [sign in to see URL] classifiers are great source of (gossip)information on how a bulls daughters are looking in general .
9/12/2003, 0:48 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
Will Richardson Profile
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Re: CATTLE BREEDING....... ART OR SCIENCE?


quote:

broa wrote:




Even at the price of poor fertillity, a depleted genetic base and a drastic increase of still borne calves ?
I started using US and Canadian holstein semen 20 years ago.
What used to be 4% still borne per year, has increased and is now over 10%.







  I know of 1 instance where compensation was paid to a dairy farmer in the UK because a certain very high profile bull left him with an unusually high number of small,runty, dead or unthrifty calves.

 In the early 1980's I noticed that if we crossed 2 particular bulls together all the bull calves were born alive but approximately 85% of the heifer calves were stillborn for no apparent [sign in to see URL] bulls contained blood from Seiling [sign in to see URL] must be a lethal gene there somewhere for this to happen but I'm not sure if there's any evidence available as to what it is.

---
Looking after 100 cows and youngstock in North East UK + 100 acres wheat ... no staff employed.

8500kgs 4.30% fat 3.33% protein 82 points average on type

NO links to any company whatsoever.
10/12/2003, 13:52 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Re: CATTLE BREEDING....... ART OR SCIENCE?


10% still borns. On 100 calvings that's 10 dead calves unless my poor, poor math skills are wrong. Now using bulls like Leduc, Encore, Red Marker calving ease nightmare bulls on top of generations of the same, I can't recall 10 still borns in the last 10 years (hope I don't jinx myself).

Our cattle are heavily laced with Elevation, Astronaut and Starbuck(who is combination of the 2)so evidently I'm inbreeding to the right bulls. I will concede that if your using a lot of Bell, with CVM, Blad and what other Pandora's box of recessives seem to show up on that bloodline you will probaly increase your stillborns and abortions. Though will all the current testing it's not hard to avoid.

As i read through the Chosen Breed (every holstein enthusiast should read it), in the Roybrook section. Those cattle were bred to themselves over and over and over, had 10-11 live offspring and racked up impressive lifetime totals. Their inbreeding % was much higher than the average population. The only perceptible change i noticed was they got dairier as you bred a strength bloodline back to itself, over and over.
11/12/2003, 2:00 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Re: CATTLE BREEDING....... ART OR SCIENCE?


Im not certain that really inbred animals result in more still births.
My husband invested in a cow that he flushed for a bull & heifer by a homebred bull and 3 tempo daus and one tempo bull.
We used the bull(QKL) on the whole herd and his full sister(QK Lass) had a councellor son (LC),2 inspiration sons(lad & laddie),an artist son(AL) also the tempo bull(TL).One of the tempos had an ex inspiration dau and her sterling son (SL)got used [sign in to see URL] are animals here with the original cow on every line of the pedigree bar [sign in to see URL] QKL x LC xAL and TL x LC x [sign in to see URL] have discovered 4 crosses is too many with progeny getting less and less milky [sign in to see URL] and [sign in to see URL] closest mating has been half bro over 1/2 sister and was F74 tempo x QKL for a VG89 dau. Also QK lass x TL resulted in a GP81 cow that had a digestive problem.
11/12/2003, 9:14 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Re: CATTLE BREEDING....... ART OR SCIENCE?


Thought this might be worth kicking up again, particularly for some of our more recent members.

Five years later on Cowtalk, many of the debates are still going in different guises.
3/4/2009, 8:54 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Re: CATTLE BREEDING....... ART OR SCIENCE?


Quite a few of the older threads are still relavent

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Herd Classification: 3ME 15VG 18GP 1 NC
3/4/2009, 17:03 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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CATTLE BREEDING....... ART OR SCIENCE?


maybe start a new forum for topics like this?

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Milking 50 cows in tie stall barn- Herd Classification 10VG - 35GP - 8G Milk Average 9285 - 3.8% 329 - 3.3% 289(195-190-197) kgs
3/4/2009, 19:03 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Re: CATTLE BREEDING....... ART OR SCIENCE?


If there's enough to add we'll put it back into Holstein Breeding.
3/4/2009, 21:43 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 


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