Runboard.com
Слава Україні!

runboard.com       Register for a free global account (learn about it) |
Log in: (), globally (lost password?)

Page:  1  2  3  4  5 ... 9  10  11 

 
jed136 Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Registered: 06-2003
Posts: 29
Karma: 0 (+0/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: Current Favorite Sire/Sires


No reply
3/7/2003, 23:14 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
SPERRIN Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

EX93

Registered: 06-2003
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 314
Karma: 2 (+2/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: Current Favorite Sire/Sires


ALAN A the last time i looked progress was a prelude son!! or is he not a success story?
4/7/2003, 8:37 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
Will Richardson Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Ex 97 2E

Registered: 06-2003
Location: Close to a pub
Posts: 1550
Karma: 18 (+19/-1)
Reply | Quote
posticon Re: Current Favorite Sire/Sires


My prefix is ****** jed 100 cows fed on big bale grass silage,cake and some maize gluten in the feed passage. Average score is around 82 points .. yeild 8500kgs and increasing.Using nothing but UK tested bulls these days and some test semen ...currently milking a couple of Principals.

Last edited by Will Richardson, 30/7/2003, 18:27
4/7/2003, 9:05 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
Bob Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Registered: 06-2003
Location: Shropshire / Welsh Border
Posts: 145
Karma: 0 (+0/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: Current Favorite Sire/Sires


I know what you mean Simon about being lonely in the middle!
It just seems that way - but the silent majority are with you.

So many points to comment on:-
UK owned bulls - only time will tell. We are sure to get a high ranking one with second crop at some stage. We do have Regancrest Mandelin, Cogent have Figaro and Genus have Knighthood but really, there isn't a UK owned bull near the top of any second crop (98-99%Rel)rankings - either type or production. Maybe Jackson will be the one to front the UK challenge on the likes of Storm, Integrity, Juror etc but somehow I doubt it.

Every country has disasters and UK is not immune - even with Random AI sampled bulls but especially with Breeder proven. Hopefully none of them are deliberate.

Cow families - I have seen many a good cow and cow family spoiled by the wrong bull selection. I have seen great high profile balanced cows frustratingly never put to a decent balanced bull and the cow family ended there and then. Sometimes they play too safe - sometimes not safe enough. It is such a shame. Maybe the cow family wasn't strong enough in the first place. As Simon mentioned we need refiners on constructors and vice versa. Constructor on constructed for too long often leads to solid wood structure. Refiner on refined falls apart without the framework.
There are some great cow families out there. A good topic would be which is the best and why? Regancrest Dellias, Mil R Mor Roxies, Markwell Ravens, Holtex Bootpegs, Robthom Ivories, Aquila Vanessas, Sweets, Pamelas, Gloriettes, Holim Kims. There are plenty of families in the ascendancy like Krull Broker Elegance, Henkeseen, Autumn Ridge, Smiddiehill Earl, Laurie Sheik. Perhap some will vote for Grove Butterflys or Terling Torches - leaders in their day! So many others world wide to chose from.

What criteria shall we set? 3 generations of EX93 and above, bred at least 10 excellent family members,bred successful bulls into AI all over the world. Maybe thats too high but there are some that have!

It is far easier to start with a great cow family than to try and breed one from cow families that you have struggled with for years. However all cow families start somewhere and often it is a certain combination of sires that does it.
Certain bulls seem to feature in the great cow families. In the past it may have been an Elevation, Sexation or Chief cow. More latterly perhaps a Bell or a Mark.

Pete Heffering developed some great cow families. He did not start them but recognised the need to work from existing ones. He took the best cow families from the USA into Canada and showed the Canadians how to do it. He brought up the Barbs and Mark I's from Kip Herzog in California, The Lulus from New York. He was followed by Startmore who brought up Jim Mar Astronaut Gail from Bill Clark in California. Quality went to Plushanski in Pennsylvania. They all recognised the need to start with something special. Heffering went on and continued to buy Roxette from Bob Miller,Chicago. Was Heffering the greatest breeder of all time? He was certainly one of the most successful and he marketed his product well - he was obviously starting off with quality cows and he had the foresight and guts to buy them. More importantly he continued to develop them.
4/7/2003, 11:08 Link to this post PM via Email
 
simon powell Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

EX94

Registered: 06-2003
Posts: 477
Karma: 8 (+8/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: Current Favorite Sire/Sires


Thanks Bob it's good to have a "Friend".

In my opinion the UK breeding programmes have not produced a second crop bull to rank with the likes of Juror etc. simply because this is not what they are aiming for.
Certainly the systems are in place here in the UK to accurately evaluate the bulls that go on test. Any system can only evaluate the bulls that are placed in it.
Therefore it is the selection of bulls to go on test that has the biggest influence on what comes out the other end.
I have long held the view that Sire Analysts in the UK are searching for another Sunny Boy rather than a Blackstar or Starbuck.

I am not informed enough to know, maybe Sunny Boy was one of the most profitable bulls in history as far as Holland Genetics were concerned. Iam sure that Blackstar and Starbuck have contributed more to breed advancement!!!!!

This raises the rather interesting question of whether the future direction of the Holstein breed is dictated by commercial necessity or the genuine desire to improve it, from a bull stud point of view.

Are we breeding bulls to top lists or meet the needs of the Holstein population?
Any views ???????
4/7/2003, 14:08 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
stephen dalton Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Registered: 06-2003
Posts: 47
Karma: 0 (+0/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: Current Favorite Sire/Sires


Pete Heffering was the best breeder of all time no doubt
4/7/2003, 14:10 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
stephen dalton Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Registered: 06-2003
Posts: 47
Karma: 0 (+0/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: Current Favorite Sire/Sires


Simon is right all they are trying to do is get on the top of the list this is mad u cant build good cows from numbers i look on the canadian dairy network and type in one of the bull studs in england and the mating are just terrible sire stacks like mountain x lexus x bellwood x cash what is going on here does anybody like this who makes matings like this they need to stop it just a waste of time and money
4/7/2003, 14:21 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
MarkDay Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Head Administrator

Registered: 06-2003
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3653
Karma: 31 (+33/-2)
Reply | Quote
Re: Current Favorite Sire/Sires


quote:

Bob wrote:

. We do have Regancrest Mandelin, Cogent have Figaro and Genus have Knighthood but really, there isn't a UK owned bull near the top of any second crop (98-99%Rel)rankings - either type or production. Maybe Jackson will be the one to front the UK challenge on the likes of Storm, Integrity, Juror etc but somehow I doubt it.



Figaro was Cogent's first decent bull so therefore first 2nd crop success...one out of one isn't bad!Principal will have his 2nd crop proof soon so we will see.

Weeton Jackson is a disaster waiting to happen..I hope he doesn't give UK bulls a bad name(could be wrong of course!!)

Probably wouldn't disagree with Simon's comments about the kind of bull that UK studs have been proving although I think things are changing a bit.

---
Bickleygate holsteins

"I have not failed 1000 times, I have discovered a 1000 ways that do not work"-Thomas Edison
4/7/2003, 14:24 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
Will Richardson Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Ex 97 2E

Registered: 06-2003
Location: Close to a pub
Posts: 1550
Karma: 18 (+19/-1)
Reply | Quote
Re: Current Favorite Sire/Sires


quote:

stephen dalton wrote:

Simon is right all they are trying to do is get on the top of the list this is mad u cant build good cows from numbers i look on the canadian dairy network and type in one of the bull studs in england and the mating are just terrible sire stacks like mountain x lexus x bellwood x cash what is going on here does anybody like this who makes matings like this they need to stop it just a waste of time and money





However this also works both ways number breeding for type as well as number breeding for production both do not work too well in practice .. on the type side you end up with tidy cows with low production .. on the production side you get extreme milk yield with low type... although I do believe that when AI companies contract a cow for a bull they would normally try to use a sire that would complement that cow.... as most of us try to do when breeding our own animals.
4/7/2003, 14:48 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
Bob Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Registered: 06-2003
Location: Shropshire / Welsh Border
Posts: 145
Karma: 0 (+0/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: Current Favorite Sire/Sires


Of course AI companies want to be top of the lists. Nothing wrong with that. We want the top bulls for type, for udder for balance, for somatic cell, for feet and legs, for longevity, for componants and yes for production too. If possible we want it all in one package. This is what we strive for. We want the top bulls on your shopping list. Sire analysts would soon become redundent if they were never successful.
They usually have hundreds of matings to make each year. They try to cover all bases and all potential markets. They want the top sire in every niche of the market. I and no other AI organistion worth their salt should settle for anything less.
However, some lists we do not worry about - the combined lists that elevate high production, low type sires into the public eye. These are usually promoted by scientists and press that know no better.
4/7/2003, 17:20 Link to this post PM via Email
 


Reply

Page:  1  2  3  4  5 ... 9  10  11 





You are not logged in (login)
Back To Top

Disclaimer: Any views expressed on this site are not necessarily the views of the owner or any of the sponsors of Cowtalk..

Google
WWW COWTALK