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heavenlyholsteins Profile
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Re: Show Cows- Vanity or Sanity?


Well you all seem to really enjoy getting lashed up & socialising at the shows, and I can't disagree with that aspect of it, but have you actually ever listened to the chit chat round the ring side from your everyday farmer,

They can't really relate to the huge 63" cows in their system, some may think they're nice to look at, but would hate to have a herd of them trying to lie in cubicles or fit in their herringbone parlour.
 Whilst your average commercial farmer may love going to the Royal to have a look....... Is he really interested in what happens in the Show ring?
Probably not because at the end of the day the milk from his cows is just the same colour, taste and most importantly..... price, as the milk that comes from any cow that wins a show...... the main reason why most of us show, is all about marketing progeny from the cows we choose to take out, and apart from selling the odd bull to Joe Bloggs down the road (no dis-respect) it's usually the top 1% of the pedigree boys buying from each other.
So as for showing cows.......... VANITY within the breeders themselves
15/7/2003, 17:29 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
MarkDay Profile
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Re: Show Cows- Vanity or Sanity?


Can't argue with any of those comments :shake

---
Bickleygate holsteins

"I have not failed 1000 times, I have discovered a 1000 ways that do not work"-Thomas Edison
15/7/2003, 18:37 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Re: Show Cows- Vanity or Sanity?


Not sure if I agree totaly with the above comments. Have done a little showing in the past, and although the results are average have been very pleased with the results. Showing is definatly not my strong point, but feel it has its place. Pretty easy for the commercial guy to say he can't relate to 63 inch cows, if he has never had any, or ever really seen a large herd at work. In this months issue of the holstein world, the cover story on Ideal Dairy Farms, is just one example of a large herd (750 cows, 13,432kg herd average) breeding for these large cows believeing that"the bigger their factory is, the better converters they are". At Arron Doon there are not that many cows over 60 inches, but I sure do wish the barn was full of them. Look at the show ring with the veiw if there were no "show guys" their would be no extra value, for those big showy cows or heifers. Feel there is mostly the veiw of "if I can't breed them, I would'nt want them"(jealousy a lot of it), and there is no value in that. Once you get these big framey cows they are definatly easier to breed from, these are the true brood cows of are breed. If we just ues index only ideals in our sire selection, size will be one of the first things lost, and that is a mistake indeed.
As for the comment only the top 1% of pedigree boys buying from each other, in my herd the commercial cows are my recipiants, try to sell above average stock for above prices, and it is not just the top 1% it seems to be, all over the map on who buys what.
If there were no shows, there would be no Expo, or Royal ect,. these create excitmeant, in our industry. if theres no excitmeant, why would anyone want to bother? Shows are good for the industry as a whole, and the commercial guy
benifits from them maybe more than he thinks.
SANITY DEFINATLY
16/7/2003, 4:23 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Re: Show Cows- Vanity or Sanity?


Finally the views starting to be expressed are more the response i was trying to ascertain. Whilst i agree that the shows are great fun and a wonderful chance to really learn about what makes cows "tick" it is important that the link between the pedigree and commercial producer stay [sign in to see URL] my opinion it is how we maintain this that is the challenge for the future success of marketing within your herd to the pedigree and commercial producer alike!
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16/7/2003, 7:33 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Re: Show Cows- Vanity or Sanity?


Your'e being slightly harsh to commercial farmers by saying that jealousy is the key factor in why they don't want big cows....... They'd have to change their whole system if they were to milk a herd of cows that size..... and be real how many of the best show cows run with the rest of the herd with no preferential treatment?
16/7/2003, 9:45 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Re: Show Cows- Vanity or Sanity?


I think HeavenlyH and Mark are missing the point a little. When a commercial farmer goes to the Royal Show for example, the champion Holstein has as much relevance as that300hp tractor or the biggest combine. None of these things would be the ideal solution for his farm. The point is though he works with the ordinary every day, he goes to the show to see something extraordinary.
When he gets home, what he has seen may inspire him to update some of the tools he is working with, not to the scale he has seen, but just a little in that direction.
This is true of his genetics too.
Take as an analogy a Grand Prix at Silverstone. Most of the spectators will be car owners. None of them will have a F1 car parked on the drive at home, BUT there is every chance that the cars they do drive, will have derived some of their design and technology from F1 racing. Get my drift?????
I feel that the successful showman is as close to the commercial producer now as he has been for many years.
Size may be an issue (we can discuss elsewhere), but boy those girls milk!!!!!!
16/7/2003, 9:46 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Re: Show Cows- Vanity or Sanity?


I take your point, and it's a good one at that, and perhaps they do as you say and take a little bit of that theory home, but on the other hand how many of them say " I wouldn't want a herd 0f those"
Don't get me wrong I just think that milk producers fit into so many different categories, from the elite of the breed that really go out to make money from the pedigree job, right down to tose that milk them & burn them, so as far as showing goes, they'll always be worlds apart.
16/7/2003, 10:32 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Re: Show Cows- Vanity or Sanity?


I think the biggest issue that the commercial producer has with top show cows, is size. What he has to remember is that these represent the very extreme of the breed. The men parading them have spent generations developing them, and then had to nurture them to some degree, to get them that big!!!! These chaps don't actually have whole herds of 63" cows at home because they are not that easy to produce.
If our commercial man buys a son of one of these cows for use in his own herd, how many 63" daughters will be produced when this bull is crossed onto his own cows?
My belief is the answer will probably be none, although the bull may increase stature a little!

I feel to make a difference we have to breed to extremes, that doesn't neccessarily mean that we want our end result to be the extreme.

Many commercial men are horrified by the scale of top show cows, but when they go to a market will choose a well grown heifer over a small one. What we may consider to be a good herd cow, 59-60" with lots of capacity ( width, depth and length) is still larger than the animal many of these people are working with.
Whilst they undoubtably do not want a herd of Integrity Sara's and Formation Erles it needs this sort of specimen to create the animal that your average milk producer would consider ideal.

I firmly believe that whilst the backbone of the industry does not want huge cows, they do not want small ones either!!!!!!!!!

Shows promote cows that have the ability to produce and last, which is just what the commercial man wants. A bit more understanding on the size issue and then we've really cracked it!!!!!!!
16/7/2003, 12:19 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Re: Show Cows- Vanity or Sanity?


Being a commercial milk producer myself with 100% homebred registered pedigree Holsteins. I can definitely say I dont want these real huge cows 800kg+ bodyweight neither do I want little small framed animals around 450kg bodyweight. Somewhere in the middle suits me just fine.I'm not sure how big other peolpes cows are that come on this forum but my last lot of culls averaged 700kg liveweight without being fat.
16/7/2003, 12:51 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Re: Show Cows- Vanity or Sanity?


You're the man that backs up my huntchs with facts Will, but i imagine that 700kg is way over the national average for an OTMS dairy animal. It is a good exercise to stand and watch what people are actually culling sometime. Very educational!!!!!!!
I believe there are more small cows going up the tailboard than 700kg ones, although it's getting cows too big that everyone is worried about!!!!!!
16/7/2003, 13:40 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 


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