Runboard.com
You're welcome.

runboard.com       Register for a free global account (learn about it) |
Log in: (), globally (lost password?)


Page:  1  2  3  4  5 

 
Big Bird Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Cowtalk Staff
Global user

Registered: 06-2003
Posts: 3421
Karma: 39 (+40/-1)
Reply | Quote
Re: Type Merit Vs Bull Linears


The problem stems not from one mating but from several generations of matings where index has taken preference over type. There will always be the cow that needs milk put back on to her, and this is where bulls like Celsius have a place, but you are then breeding at the end of a scale. If your subsequent matings are along the same lines you will run into problems.

Eventually you will have cows so small and frail that their constitution won't let them milk.

Just as a side thought, there are many bulls today that will do the high milk at any cost route. If you breed for type accasionally you may need to use this type of bull and you have choices. If you breed for milk and loose capacity there are not the variety of choices to put this right, and it is a much harder trait to improve.
29/8/2003, 10:58 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
simon powell Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

EX94
Global user

Registered: 06-2003
Posts: 477
Karma: 8 (+8/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: Type Merit Vs Bull Linears


quote:

Gerbrich wrote:

 Personally I don't see any value in Dairy Character at all. I believe it has more to do with showing than functionality.





[sign in to see URL] despair!!!!!!!!!!!!!
29/8/2003, 13:03 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
Big Bird Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Cowtalk Staff
Global user

Registered: 06-2003
Posts: 3421
Karma: 39 (+40/-1)
Reply | Quote
Re: Type Merit Vs Bull Linears


Is there a difference in the type of cow the Dutch are looking to breed?

Udders and feet/legs are extremely important, size and dairy character less so.
Isn't this the philosophy that saw the majority of people abandon the Friesian and go for Holstein bloodlines to improve their cows?
29/8/2003, 20:59 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
Gerbrich Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Ex96
Global user

Registered: 07-2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 990
Karma: 22 (+22/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: Type Merit Vs Bull Linears


The main reason for abandoning the Friesians was that the Friesians weren't milking, which was the result of breeding too much for type. A different kind of type we are looking for now, but a type that was fashionable in the 50ties and 60ties. The Friesians weren't very good in udders and feet and legs either.

So having learned from our mistakes: try to breed for production with the type that will help the cow to produce for many years. I think the British farmers would want that kind of cow too. Good Udders and Legs and Feet are essential for that. There is not that much of a relationship with dairy character and size.

Dutch farmers don't want small cows either, but a 57" cow is good enough for them, and as you said, udders and legs and feet (and high components) are extremely important when selecting which bulls to use. We don't have a composite trait for Dairy Character, so they can't even select on that.
30/8/2003, 8:16 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
**legacy user**
EX92
Local user

Registered: 06-2003
Posts: 287
Karma: 0 (+0/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: Type Merit Vs Bull Linears


Despair from me too!, no wonder we dont use dutch bulls! Cows with no dairy character do not milk, there will be exceptions but as a general rule breed character in any breed or species (beef, sheep etc.) is a highly important factor, no offence gerbrich but I really cant agree with you! :blink

---
Time is never wasted, when you're wasted all the time!
30/8/2003, 9:09 Link to this post PM via Email
 
Big Bird Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Cowtalk Staff
Global user

Registered: 06-2003
Posts: 3421
Karma: 39 (+40/-1)
Reply | Quote
Re: Type Merit Vs Bull Linears


Friesians - neat little cows with no decent legs and feet, good udders and little dairy character that eventually ran out of milk. Sounds exactly the route the Dutch are going down. Without enough capacity or dairy character that is just what will happen.
30/8/2003, 9:43 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
simon powell Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

EX94
Global user

Registered: 06-2003
Posts: 477
Karma: 8 (+8/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: Type Merit Vs Bull Linears


quote:

Gerbrich wrote:

The main reason for abandoning the Friesians was that the Friesians weren't milking, which was the result of breeding too much for type.






This is absolutely true, Gerbrich.
Here in the UK rather than abandon breeding for conformation, we bit the bullet, went through a revolution, and redefined the type of cow that was needed for our production systems. Initially, almost as a response to the type of animal we had become frustrated with, production potential became a top priority and some functional type traits were ignored. This too, we learned, was a mistake.

We now have a fairly clear picture of the type of animal we require. She has the cleaness and dairy quality to produce efficiently,plus the physical structure to withstand the perils of life on a UK dairy farm. These traits on top of the super udders and legs and feet, that are required by every nation, mean that we have arrived at an animal that will never top an international 2yo production league, but has the perfect balance of production and longevity to fit our systems.
This is the animal that the UK breeder is generally striving to breed. Just like his Dutch counterpart, who is desperately seeking to produce the ideal animal for their own system.
We do not have to judge that one way is better than the other, just accept that they are different. Each successful in their own right!!!

Last edited by MarkDay, 30/8/2003, 12:01
30/8/2003, 10:02 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
Gerbrich Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Ex96
Global user

Registered: 07-2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 990
Karma: 22 (+22/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: Type Merit Vs Bull Linears


Looks like I'm stirring up some emotions here!

If a cow needs dairy character and capacity to produce, then surely the bulls that are topping the PLI (= production + longevity), TOP or TPI list should all be that kind of transmitters?

You see, I'm still not sure that we know exactly how that ideal cow looks like that produces for years on end. And I am looking for answers.

An example: this proof run, suddenly a bull with test crop daughters only, long dead and gone, enters the top 10 DPS with an extremely high longevity score. I wonder why???

His type transmission is bad and pedigree is nothing exciting. The only thing positive is that he is good on all health traits and his dam has given 100 tons in 8 lactations and is still milking. And his daughters are very persistent producers within their lactations and also late maturing considering his milk proof of 1004, 1203 and 1495 in the first 3 lactations.

I just want to know then why he has such a bad type proof and how his daughters look now in their third lactations. Were they very immature when they were scored as heifers and if you would score them now would he get a higher type proof?

His name is Ankerock and here's the link to his UK proof

[url][sign in to see URL]


Last edited by Gerbrich, 30/8/2003, 15:42
30/8/2003, 14:37 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
Big Bird Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Cowtalk Staff
Global user

Registered: 06-2003
Posts: 3421
Karma: 39 (+40/-1)
Reply | Quote
Re: Type Merit Vs Bull Linears


That shouldn't be top 10 in any country. With a type proof like that he should be unusabull.
30/8/2003, 16:39 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
**legacy user**
EX92
Local user

Registered: 06-2003
Posts: 287
Karma: 0 (+0/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: Type Merit Vs Bull Linears


Frightening! :blink

---
Time is never wasted, when you're wasted all the time!
30/8/2003, 18:24 Link to this post PM via Email
 


Reply

Page:  1  2  3  4  5 





You are not logged in (login)
Back To Top

Disclaimer: Any views expressed on this site are not necessarily the views of the owner or any of the sponsors of Cowtalk..

Google
WWW COWTALK