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MarkDay Profile
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Re: Type Traits


quote:

Bob wrote:

We have to forget about UK locomotion. There is no UK locomotion score for imported bulls.



You must be joking!!!! Locomotion evaluation is a fantastic developement and if it doesn't help your marketing of imported bulls ..tough!All imported bulls with a second crop UK proof will have a locomotion score.

As big bird said,we have led the world on this one and it is upto the rest of the world to follow !

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Bickleygate holsteins

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12/9/2003, 8:53 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
Bob Profile
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Re: Type Traits


Big Bird, we are talking on two different planes here. I am trying (rather unsuccessfully) to say we have to take locomotion out of this discussion. There is no locomotion score for imported sires and therefore, useful as it is, it does not help us whatsover in assessing imported sires.
There is, however, a score called rear legs-rear view, which is assessed during classification in most developed countries of the world, which, for some reason Holstein UK do not use in their linears. I think the trait is important - even more so when we don't have a locomotion score for that sire!
12/9/2003, 8:59 Link to this post PM via Email
 
Brian Profile
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Re: Type Traits


Just a few points:-

i) locomotion IS very important!
ii) I have seen numerous cows that look very close hocked when dry and almost perfect with a full udder
iii)Bob, would you like to see other countries giving a locomotion score?


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12/9/2003, 9:14 Link to this post PM via Email
 
Gerbrich Profile
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Re: Type Traits


quote:

MARKDAY wrote:

As big bird said,we have led the world on this one and it is upto the rest of the world to follow !



Didn't HUK pick up the idea in the Netherlands???
We have been scoring locomotion since we are scoring feet and legs, although not as a linear (I believe they are starting to do that now as a research trait). The composite for legs and feet is for more than 60% based on locomotion and is scored when the cows are walking away from the classifier.

What is the influence of locomotion on the composite F&L in the UK?

An example of a bull with below average legs & feet in the Netherlands is Astre, mainly based on locomotion (he also has a negative score for rear legs rear view). However he is over 2 points in the UK. Is that because of cleanness of bone?
12/9/2003, 9:18 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
Bob Profile
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Re: Type Traits


Wow, talk about jumping down someones throat!You think you write something that is clear in its intent and everyone reads it the other way. When I said forget about locomotion, I meant forget about it from this discussion because it is irrelevant to the question I was asking. Locomotion score is not available on imported sires in this country.I certainly did not mean that the UK should scrap it!

Of course locomotion is important. Locomotion is great, wonderful and a great initiative from the UK.
But my question to the panel was never about locomotion -

So, Can we start again.
 
My question was about all the imported bulls sold in this country. They do not have a locomotion score but do have a rear legs rear view score. Should we not get Holstein UK to give that score a UK value and publish that score in the bulls linear?

Last edited by Bob, 12/9/2003, 9:34
12/9/2003, 9:24 Link to this post PM via Email
 
Gerbrich Profile
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Re: Type Traits


Bob, I looked at the Interbull site, and it looks like the correlation between US RLRV and UK RLRV (I'm not sure but I think they took UK locomotion here) is around 0.70. Correlation between NLD RLRV and UK RLRV is also around 0.70. So maybe this is not high enough for conversions?

Correlations between US and NL are over 0.90.
12/9/2003, 9:32 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
Will Richardson Profile
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Re: Type Traits


Rear legs -Rear View means nothing especially when stood on piece on slippery old concrete in the middle of a shed in the middle of winter .. most cows would hock in just to stand up but once you get them walking on firm ground you get a far more accurate assessment of how good or bad they are.So NO!!! we shouldnt bother with rear legs rear view even if it does upset a few semen companies.


 Where Leaders go .. etc etc
12/9/2003, 9:36 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
Bob Profile
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Re: Type Traits


Will,
I don't think you will upset any Semen Companies by dismissing this trait. I think users and buyers are the losers for not having this information. Of course, it may not be a problem to you after seeing your digi winning performance in the Cogent paper but not all UK farmers are 100% Cogent. Far from it.
We can all be sceptical about many traits putting them down to management and environment but daughter inspection in cow sheds is sometimes all you have. The classifiers like to see them out but that is not always possible- even in the UK.
12/9/2003, 10:30 Link to this post PM via Email
 
simon powell Profile
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Re: Type Traits


quote:

Bob wrote:

Big Bird, we are talking on two different planes here.




....and wheres your plane heading, Bob?

Sorry Bob, Couldn't resist!!!!

Locomotion is tops, but if we don't have that info on foreign bulls, then surely we have to utilise the next best thing?
12/9/2003, 10:35 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
Will Richardson Profile
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Re: Type Traits


quote:

simon powell wrote:

Locomotion is tops, but if we don't have that info on foreign bulls, then surely we have to utilise the next best thing?


  

The next best thing is rear legs side view and foot angle.
12/9/2003, 12:52 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 


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