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frodobag Profile
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VG88

Registered: 05-2004
Posts: 122
Karma: 2 (+2/-0)
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posticon Re: Moet Scheme


ToB, you seem a little harsh with some of your comments, but it is a free world. Yes, 11,870 kgs milk/day on 3x day is achievable, but the last time i was in at Moet, they are achieving that on 2x milking, and i would expect Cogent to be up there as well. As for crashing the bull breeders market? What do you mean by that? The companies that own the nucleus's either have to go out and purchase embryos to fill the unit (cash for breeder), fetch in invited heifers either by purchasing the animal or if she graduates, buy embryos (cash for breeder plus huge exposure on a national/international stage) or breed their own stock, just what everybody else is doing. And can you really blame them for utilising such a tool? Semen companies more than anything strive integrity, they are much more interested in a return sale rather than the quick sale, Im sure Bullpen would agree. So, while I do not doubt that there are genuine farmers out there, there will be some guys that cook the books to get semen orgs interested in their stock. I think the guys with the nucleus herds can use this as an extra tool to try and find the genuine good ones. They have to have the right ones in there, granted. But all comments on these pages will refer back to bulls that didnt live up to expectations, so who can blame the companies for trying to get more confidence and reliability in their young bull stud
14/6/2004, 21:45 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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VG88

Registered: 05-2004
Posts: 122
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posticon Re: Moet Scheme


To continue, if a bull crashes, they blame the herd, not the stud? Not in England they dont, I bollock the guy that sold me the bull, not ring up the breeder, take Prelude for example! And as for going out and finding new families, shouldnt they be applauded for doing something you want to do, imagine if you uncovered the Dellias or the Sweets, or the Kimos? Ok its a long shot, but we need to get diversity into our bloodlines.
14/6/2004, 21:51 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
canuk Profile
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Ex97
True Scarlet


Registered: 11-2003
Posts: 1329
Karma: 24 (+25/-1)
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Re: Moet Scheme


OK history puts a kink in this whole moet, nuclius herd, idea. Go way back to Montvic, on to Roybrook, Hanoverhill, and now to Comestar, all pampered beyond belief, all had top sires proven over 99% rel, many, many, class extra sires, from these breeders, and names familier to everyone. Now if someone has a good cow in a box stall, he is/or his cow is, considered not reliable, its a shame really.
15/6/2004, 1:45 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Ex97
closet Syrup lover


Registered: 05-2004
Location: Shropshire / Welsh border
Posts: 1184
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Re: Moet Scheme


Yes Canuk but could Hanoverhill not of been considered to be a Nucleus herd of its day.
Pete Heffering went around the USA bringing lots of the top cow families like Lulu, Barbs, Mark I, Roxys, Charity up into Canada and under one roof where they could all be compared to one another.
Once you have discovered the best ones, then box stalling them to protect them is no crime.
15/6/2004, 8:02 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
canuk Profile
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Ex97
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Registered: 11-2003
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Re: Moet Scheme


I seriously doubt there is a single cow in any nucleaus herd, that would suit Peter Heffering. Any herd on earth has a cow, or cow family, that comes to the top of their own individual herd, to look after them, is also in my opinion NOT a crime. Seems though that those who struggle to breed the really good ones, or don't have the managmeant or facilitys, to look after them properly, can lay claim to, "everything competes fairly in our commercial system" this to me is a crock of s*it. History dosn't lie, but it dosn't suit some, thats for sure.
15/6/2004, 14:37 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
Big Bird Profile
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Cowtalk Staff

Registered: 06-2003
Posts: 3421
Karma: 39 (+40/-1)
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Re: Moet Scheme


Our PI foundation females didn't cost us a fortune, but have decent pedigrees. As we breed from them, if we don't try to treat them pretty much the same at this stage we won't know which are the better ones ourselves. I have a rough idea which will be the best and which will be the worst, but so far there has been plenty of chopping and changing.
16/6/2004, 12:54 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
canuk Profile
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Ex97
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Registered: 11-2003
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Re: Moet Scheme


I certainly hope, you didn't think my last quote was aimed at you Big B, I was just venting. I myself have had good familys dwindle away, but mostly because I maybe consentrait, on to few, and I like to sell the good ones. The world is full of cows and cow familys, chopping and changing em, just keeps it more interesting.
17/6/2004, 2:49 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Cowtalk Staff

Registered: 06-2003
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Re: Moet Scheme


Didn't take it personally at all Canuk, just giving a slightly different point of view.

I started with little or no budget, so I'm constantly scouring the bargain basement for something I believe I can turn a profit on. I do occasionally think I'll go out and try to buy something further up the food chain, but the truth is I think I'm getting more enjoyment out of buying the foundations and building myself than I would buying the finished product. I also get a buzz from people telling me I bought one of the bargains of the sale.

If I continue to source them cheap I can afford to let them find their own level in the herd.
17/6/2004, 9:01 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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EX92

Registered: 06-2003
Posts: 287
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Re: Moet Scheme


Thats pretty similar to myself BB, I go to a sale with all the ones that I would like to buy marked in the catalouge, then when I see them in the flesh I can eliminate some from those marked. But when they come in the ring it seems everyone else has the same idea as me(but they have a bigger budget). So I end up buying a cheaper one. They are always PI but sometimes the pedigrees aren't quite so flashy. Then again who's to say that they wont turn out just as good as the expensive ones anyway! I always find myself buying the lower price range ones, but like you say BB, the less you spend the less you have to lose! emoticon

---
Time is never wasted, when you're wasted all the time!
18/6/2004, 7:52 Link to this post PM via Email
 
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Cowtalk Staff

Registered: 06-2003
Posts: 3421
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Re: Moet Scheme


We bought mostly older cows when we first looked at PI's, but I feel we've moved beyond that now. When I look at what I consider our better value purchases they have mostly been milking heifers or second calvers from good families with at least 3 generations of VG or EX, but have been by a PI farm bull rather than the latest hot AI sire. We did buy one 3/4 heifer that turned into a twelth generation VG or EX.
18/6/2004, 11:34 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 


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