ronflatness
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Re: Uninspiring TPI top 100
Scott,
Markwell Ramses is on the Top 100 TPI list, is he no good?
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4/4/2004, 20:22
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bob hardy
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Re: Uninspiring TPI top 100
Who actually invents these lists? It isn't the AI studs. I think it is mainly governmental departments who like to see some sort of economic overall index. The farming press certainly seem to like them. All they ever write about is who is top of the top 10. Like you say Shilt, its not a popularity index. Farmers like type, they also like production but they don't like production without type. So you may see many strange bulls up on those rankings but I don't think they are very popular - not with our customers anyway.
With regard to the studs not taking that bull - I am not sure the reason is purely lack of index. I know that Select sample many bulls from great cow families that may lack index. I know they are currently into Elegance, Paradise, Ashlynn, Zandra etc so there may be another reason they have turned you down. They are usually willing to keep an open mind on a cow family or herd until proven one way or the other.
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4/4/2004, 20:26
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shilt79
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Re: Uninspiring TPI top 100
Ron, quite frankly I don't give a damn if Markwell Ramses is on the list or not. And why ask me if he is no good? I figure everyone else can make their mind up on that. I didn't say that all bulls on the Top 100 TPI list are no good, and I didn't say that there are none I use or would use. I said it's just hard to find much on that list to get excited about, and it's getting harder. That's it.
Bob, you made a point about the studs taking sons out of Elegance, Paradise, Ashlyn, Zandra, etc, and I think that is good, but I still think that studs should look farther, away from the showring to just good honest cow families too, like Albert's Morty son.
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4/4/2004, 20:34
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ronflatness
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Re:TPI top 100
The US TPI list,is published by the US Holstein Assn.
The emphasis on certain traits is determined by its genetic advancement committee, composed of elected dairymen and genticists.
It's very popularand influential in the US.Over the decades the best bulls in the breed, have been near the top, at one time or another.
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4/4/2004, 20:41
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bob hardy
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Re: Uninspiring TPI top 100
I bet the type ranking list would have more popular bulls on it than any combined overall index. However, if I was to invent an index that would feature the bulls most likely to be attractive to the general dairyman, it would probably be 2/3 type and 1/3 production rather than the other way around. Most farmers are content with bulls so long as they are not really low on production.
Most asked for criteria in order of importance usually are:-
-Feet and legs
-Udders
-Strength
-Percents that are near enough to breakeven.
-reasonable milk plus
-Non cvm
-Good somatic cell.
-quiet and easy milking
-pedigree likes and dislikes
-size either way.
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4/4/2004, 20:48
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IndiesViewGD
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Re: Uninspiring TPI top 100
quote: amlkman wrote:
I have the Only Morty son Out of Pinehurst Sweet Dusty 11 generations of EX. One of only 4 or 5 cows in the breed. No Index awsom calf. Do you think Select, Semex, Alta, etc. Would be interested? No. Why? No Index.
I agree these are the bulls we need in AI and the bulls I would like to see more of. I feel solid cow familys and proven transmitting ability are much more important and reliable than some number. Would much rather use a bull like this than some index bull that is made out to be the next savior of the breed when in reality all he is, is an average bull if even most likely from a GP 2yr old dam from a family that hasn't proven anything.
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4/4/2004, 21:05
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ronflatness
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Re: Uninspiring TPI top 100
Perhaps we are talking about two different TPI lists here.
It appears that very few on this thread have even seen ...the current US top 100 TPI list,(2/04).
If so... quickly tell me who No.22 is on that list?
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4/4/2004, 21:14
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IndiesViewGD
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Re: Uninspiring TPI top 100
It's Manat but honestly ron who memorizes the top 100 TPI list?
Last edited by IndiesViewGD, 5/4/2004, 2:39
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4/4/2004, 22:16
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alan a
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Re: Uninspiring TPI top 100
quote: ronflatness wrote:
Perhaps we are talking about two different TPI lists here.
It appears that very few on this thread have even seen ...the current US top 100 TPI list,(2/04).
If so... quickly tell me who No.22 is on that list?
I can say which US bulls are selling in NI. They are not the ones that are top of the TPI list.
Our own sales are well over 50% of second crop bulls. The ones that breeders tell their neighbours about. the ones whose daughters do well at sales, both commercial and pedigree sales. And even some of the bulls whose daughters appear out at the shows.
Having a bull at the top of a list somewhere helps marketing, but farmer feedback helps a lot more.
--- Alan Armstrong
Semex Ni Area manager
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4/4/2004, 23:12
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canuk
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Re: Uninspiring TPI top 100
Ron- you just totally, avoided my question. Ever considered a life in politics? if bull A has 200 more TPI points than bull B any resulting calf born from bull A, will be 100 CTPI points higher than any calf born from bull B. What does that mean in my pocket? Why should I use bull A ? If there is no answer for this question, why do you keep refuring to this TPI list?
The Canadian LPI list, is ranked I believe 60% production traits, 40% type traits, and yes for this list to mean anything to me, I would like it the other way around. If someone could exsplain what a calf with 100 more LPI points, means that would be great too.
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5/4/2004, 1:00
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