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simon powell
EX94
Registered: 06-2003
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BROOD COW SIRES??
Right all you sire analysts, some consultancy please??
MMT95 has alluded to this subject but we have never really got our teeth into it.
You have a high producing, multiple excellent dam, from a long line of similar females. She is your ideal, and there is nothing that you would wish to change about her.
Now, which sires should you breed her to, to ensure you end up with a daughter equally as good as mother, plus most importantly, the ability to pass all of the family strengths on to her offspring?
In short, what sires should you use on a great brood cow to produce another great brood cow?
Note. We are trying to extend a great female line here, rather than producing bulls for studs, or fashionable matings for sale.
SUGGESTIONS???????
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6/3/2004, 1:01
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IndiesViewGD
EX95
Registered: 08-2003
Location: Wisconsin, USA
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Re: BROOD COW SIRES??
I would use sons from a great brood cow or with a great brood cow in the pedigree. I think something from the Comestar Laurie Sheik family or the Delia family would be your best bet. When you combine a great brood cow with a brood cow family I think that should increase your chances of another great brood cow.
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6/3/2004, 4:51
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mmt95
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Re: BROOD COW SIRES??
Our most successful AI sires, as to making and staying in the final stud lineup, were those bulls sired by a good AI sire, and from a dam with the same good brood cow family on both top and bottom of her pedigree. Could be, of course, other branches of the same family.
That meant her sire's maternal line was similar to hers, while his sire was a well accepted AI sire.
This was true of other good AI sires as well. This scheme of breeding for AI is no longer accepted, but it is important if the brood cow's outstanding genetics are to be passed on to her gr'daughters.
Last edited by mmt95, 6/3/2004, 15:08
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6/3/2004, 6:57
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smous
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Location: South Africa
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Re: BROOD COW SIRES??
Walkway Chief Mark's legacy to the breed was through his daughters, he made truly awesome brood cows, so did Elevation,Astronaut,Bootmaker and Sexation before him. Blackstar after him. Tops Monitor Legend and F16 are two others that spring to mind. I think Rudolph and Durham are showing promise of the same. On the other hand great brood cows are where you find them. Late maturation and udder quality seem to be a prerequisite. Bulls that breed 'meat bag' udders don't leave many long lived prolific daughters.
My personal icon is a thirteen year old Blackstar out of a Gardenia Chief Astronaut I believe she qualifies on all accounts. Her best daughter was a Prelude (eye cancer killed her prematurely), the Blackstar is short bred to Hidden View Best, if she doesn't take she will be flushed to Outside (shhh!) to try and get more of the same. Hope this doesn't blow everybodys mind but her second best daughter is a Mountain who is going to make old bones.
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WWS-SA
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6/3/2004, 7:29
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smous
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Re: BROOD COW SIRES??
Please excuse the waffling and self indulgence of my first post.
Brood Cow Makers (sometimes called 'mother-in-law' cows - they work hard and stick around for a long time!)
Quite a few of the Juror sons look like candidates: From Italy, Ford and Capri, from Canada, Boss, from the USA Ito, Geno & Gordon, maybe Roy.
Lancelot, Mtoto, Outside and Rudolph (I take it Rudolph semen is still available )
Also think Forbidden (legendary family not known for its type though)and Best have got what it takes(PL figures do worry me at this stage of the game, hopefully they will improve with reliability)
Timlynn Adam combines the best of Rudolph and Winken from a longevity family, he will make some good cows. Last but not least Timlynn Throne.
A Duster son(I don't know which one)or grandson might surprise us all one day
Last edited by smous, 6/3/2004, 16:26
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WWS-SA
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6/3/2004, 9:58
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MarkDay
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Registered: 06-2003
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Re: BROOD COW SIRES??
This is such a difficult question to answer!!When I look at the best brood cows we have had they are sired by Mascot and Bellman!!!!
Wouldn't argue too much with Smous's choices.
I think you need to look at the bulls that combine type,production,management traits and reliability.
At the end of the day the family is more important than any one sire.
--- Bickleygate holsteins
"I have not failed 1000 times, I have discovered a 1000 ways that do not work"-Thomas Edison |
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6/3/2004, 16:59
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canuk
Ex97
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Re: BROOD COW SIRES??
Also would not argue with Smous choices, but I might add Prelude, maybe Chairman, Tratition, and Triple Threat. Also lately have started to appreciate the Browndale Stardusts I see, slow maturing, big framey brood cows. For the future who knows, but I like Gibsons chances. Agree with Mark the family if good enough will come through regardless of the sire.
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6/3/2004, 18:14
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foxleigh
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Re: BROOD COW SIRES??
when one uses a succession of herd bulls as well as AI the bloodlines seem to be different. ie. we never used linmack straight yet have animals with 4 crosses(a mate said he'd never used straight warden but had up to 4 crosses of warden from using bulls)
so one could say linmack could & did sire brood cows.
looking at the jan herdtest sheets ...
a counsellor son left about 60 daus the best of which now 10yo(19 in the herd currently milking plus what ever still out dry)
a tempo uncle (also the 2 tempo sisters who became teenagers)to the councellor used in late 80s still has 2 in the milking herd they are 101 and 102 months respectively.
a 3 gen VG (89)12 yo astrojet is having an influence in the neighbourhood with her sons.
There is one daughter from an astrojet /linmack cross son that calved at 158 months who is currently doing 36 litres.
Hanoverhill roxy D left several high VG teenagers he was calving ease with tiny mouse like calves that grew into massive big cows.
Quality mark franner only had 3 daus who are all teenagers
It appears that an inspiration brother to the counsellor has quite a few daus over 100 months too.
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6/3/2004, 21:02
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broa
Registered: 12-2003
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Re: BROOD COW SIRES??
The biggest mistake I made with my sires of sons list was leaving out Skywalker.
He will sire a fair number of grand old ladies. I'm not too sure about Mtoto, his daughters are some slow milkers.
Funkis from denmark will leave som long lasting daughters, they hardly ever get mastitis.
Our Swedish bull Gul will likely be on that list as well.
Laudan and maybe his father Lukas seem to be strong candidates for this list.
from here on just insert the bulls from Smous list.
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"Dum spiro, spero"
Cicero
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6/3/2004, 21:04
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Big Bird
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Re: BROOD COW SIRES??
I get a feeling this isn't going quite in the direction Simon is trying to send us.
I think he is referring to mmt's comment about the sires dam being better than the cow you are mating, a sire with a really deep strong high type maternal pedigree. Where you make the pedigree at least as important as the proof.
Example - Robthom Integrity
Have I read you right or am I talking out of my **** Simon?
Last edited by Big Bird, 6/3/2004, 23:01
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Female families = firm foundations.
Milking generations of VG & EX from:- Mapel Wood Sheik Betsy EX, Portlea Ned Pamela EX94, Wrico Tempo Erma EX92, Bondhill Ultimate Tina EX91, Oak Ridges HS Kim EX.
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6/3/2004, 22:59
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