CHARITY
EX95
Registered: 01-2004
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PIPPEN AND SOSA
Has anybody used these two bulls and what is your opinion on them.
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12/8/2004, 20:06
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buckeyebreeder
Registered: 08-2003
Location: Ohio, USA
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Re: PIPPEN AND SOSA
Had a gift certificate for CRI and bought 5 units of Sosa. His linear proof is has no faults but no extremes either. Lots of milk low components. His dam is EX91 with a 62000lb record.
--- Whether its type or index the bottom line is that all must milk.
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13/8/2004, 1:37
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frodobag
VG88
Registered: 05-2004
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Re: PIPPEN AND SOSA
Always kept an eye on Sosa, but he is -0.4 on fat in the UK, which makes him virtually unsaleable, plus Manfred has a bad reputation in the UK. I have seen a few Pippens now, first crop in the US and now fresh early second crop in the UK. This bull for me is an unsung hero. Really sound heifers, great legs and feet and udders. They wont be overmature as heifers, but should develop into good cows, adding strength each lactation. Shame he is CV.
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14/8/2004, 23:35
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CHARITY
EX95
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Re: PIPPEN AND SOSA
If people dont use him because of his small minus for fat% that to me is insane.I could agree with not useing him because of Manfred.Why was Manfred no good in the UK!.
Manfred has so many minus points it is hard for him to click with many bloodlines and the result is bad animals.Storm on the other hand has lots of plus points in his proof which makes him a lot better for combining bloodlines.Sosas proof looks good but if i was to use him i would see if Manfred,and Bellwood would work on the animal i was going to breed to try and eliminate any bad that could be there.
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15/8/2004, 18:56
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frodobag
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Re: PIPPEN AND SOSA
Small minus? Whoa, -0.4 is nearly half a percent, and that means a whole bunch in the UK at the moment, you will get nailed on milk price. Manfred has a terrible proof in the UK, high cell counts, terrible udders. To me there are plenty other bulls out there that need using first.
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15/8/2004, 19:00
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CHARITY
EX95
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Re: PIPPEN AND SOSA
At the moment it is bad but it takes 3 years from today to get an animal with high fat potential.If u serve a cow with Gibson will it make her fat test higher the day after u serve her!.Why are cows in the UK at present got low fat test.Is it because people ignored components in the first place!.If i was farming in the UK i would always breed for high components because this enables u to use bulls like Sosa,and Formation or his sons to good effect.
Manfred may have problems to some people but i see it as a challenge to use these bulls and see if u can get a good one.Will look at Manfreds UK daughters and i will find the bad ones and find out if it was Manfred or if they were poorly mated that caused the disasters.Most people blame bulls for mistakes but usaly they are not the cause they were used without judgement by the person who bred them!.
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15/8/2004, 21:29
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CHARITY
EX95
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Re: PIPPEN AND SOSA
Just looked at some Manfred daughters on HUK.What i said before was pretty true.Some of the worst scored ones were poorly mated.
I could not understand why people or how they could put them together.I can understand the milk part of it but the type part made my eyes fall out.What is the point of potential high milk if u do not have the type to survive to create the potential high milk.Some of the worst ones dams were by:Lexus Designer Mascot Cash Cleitus son Zebo and one traced back to a freisian that had -5.14 for type.
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15/8/2004, 23:53
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foxleigh
Ex97 True blue dinky-di maverick
Registered: 06-2003
Location: southern,oz
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Re: PIPPEN AND SOSA
quote: If i was farming in the UK i would always breed for high components because this enables u to use bulls like Sosa,and Formation or his sons to good effect.
if you were to use bulls like that ontop of high testing cows ,well it wouldnt be long and you wouldnt have much test.It has taken us 10 years to get from a 4.0% fat average and a handful of 5% fat cows to a 4.4% avarage(12 month rolling) and a third of the herd over 4.8% fat.We did this by only using plus % high type proven bulls and unproven/herd bulls from cows who tested 4% ,preferebly 4.5% fat or higher.By the way herd average litres has fallen nearly 2000l in this time.now we would like a few more litres but are reluctant to lose our test.
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16/8/2004, 10:03
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CHARITY
EX95
Registered: 01-2004
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Re: PIPPEN AND SOSA
I base my breeding around type only.Will not let anything block my vision for good type.Type is everything to me and if she has no milk or components so what they can be fixed very easily because it is only 3 traits to fix.If she has bad type u can be fixing it for ages.Bulls with bad components that i like and would use them without any regret would be Chesapeake Addison Emory and his sons Formation and his sons Integrity and many others.
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16/8/2004, 15:35
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frodobag
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Registered: 05-2004
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Re: PIPPEN AND SOSA
Charity, if type is everything, why would you shag it up by using Manfred himself? And milk and components are only two small things to fix? Who out there is going to give you both those two small things as well as giving you type?
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16/8/2004, 23:08
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