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Cowman17 Profile
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EX93

Registered: 02-2009
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Re: Mating on a Snowman?



Liquid Gold is worth $750 because that is what the market has priced him at. Their is no such thing as what something "should" cost, only what people are willing to pay for it. You might pay $10, I might pay $75, some people are paying $750. Do not forget that a unit of semen can be split over several animals via IVF though. And part of that $750 is paying for the fact that not many people will have used him. Kind of brilliant by Generavations, as he should still have a healthy market in a couple months when they drop him to $100 or whatever.


As for Jacey, he is hard to get his hands on. I actually just got some for YS sampling though. I do not know what your relations are with your Genex supplier, but you might be able to steal a couple units. If not, I agree with Jeb's comments about AltaOak- absolutely fantastic pedigree in terms of having some different sires in there.



Last edited by Cowman17, 23/12/2012, 13:52
23/12/2012, 0:17 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
KINGMAMBO Profile
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Ex97
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Re: Mating on a Snowman?


Go buy some then if he is worth it i would rather buy some Damion or Atwood.These are proven bulls from proven sires and how many doses of them would u get for $750.The only reason they are priced like this is because some people belive the world is flat and there are fairys.Its has nothing to do with value its if any people are stupid enough to buy it plain and simple.There are people in this world starving to death and people want to spend big money and something that may not work.Its the classic trick take something worth $10 say its worth $750 and then sell it at $100.Then people belive they are getting a great deal because it was $750 now its $100 just like the xmas sales.This is my pain that some people are using genomics to fool money out of people that they could not have done before genomics.Do the genomics tell u that this bulls daughters blow there udders off in there 2nd lactation or have bad feet problems.There seems to many people that belive in this voodoo magic and thats what they want.There is nothing wrong with using a genomic bull but for $10-20 is all they are worth.All these bulls like the $750 bull are hyped up test bulls from hyped up test bulls.The most i have spent on one dose was $600 on Triumphant.The bull was dead as a test bull he had a great proof and was making show winners.This to me is value if people give in to buying this high priced hype then that gives these people the green light to continue doing so.
23/12/2012, 15:31 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
bazza20 Profile
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Ex 97 2E

Registered: 07-2009
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Re: Mating on a Snowman?


In my opinion paying any money at all for Atwood or Damion is robbery, to me they are useless bulls but that is just my opinion. No one is forcing me to use Atwood or Damion. Other people may like them and that's fine.

Just like no one is forcing anyone to pay 750 or 100 dollars for a genomic bull. It's up to them, playing the elite genetics game has never been cheap. People doing it know the risks, some make big money some don't. That's just the way it goes.
23/12/2012, 18:42 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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EX95

Registered: 09-2011
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Re: Mating on a Snowman?


Oh where to start. I'm impressed by KingMambo's pedigree knowledge and perseverence, but every conversation turns into a bullying match when it concerns genomics or high priced semen from young sires. Everyone is free to choose their own path, and as my dad used to say, you can be as crazy as you want to be, as long as you pay your bills. I understand the lure of bulls like Atwood, who I am using a little of based on 2 milking dtrs in our herd. However he is going down on productive life with each proof, and for commercial pedigree breeders(they do existemoticon it will be a struggle to get them to stick around. I know and expect that he will dominate Madison for years to come, but most people who go to expo, watch the show, but have no desire to breed cows that are that big or require that much special care. He may be the best type bull ever, but he is a specialty bull. Planet is way more my cup of tea, that's just how it is. To each his own.
24/12/2012, 5:56 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Ex97
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Re: Mating on a Snowman?


Thanks for your kind words.I do not think that people should not use them bulls they can use what they like.The example of Damion and Atwood was a fine example of the value of proven sires.My main point that i made was why should these bulls be used as sires of sons.This will not stop the $750 bull will have sons and they will have sons before 95% of there genetics.Why is it a great idea to have Pawnee Farm Arlinda Chief being proven after Inspiration.Why dont u tell me why thats a great idea.All that will happen is parts of the breed will be more advanced than other parts of the breed.It takes 5 years to prove a bull and this is nature this 5 years gives balance to the breed as one.The whole breed needs to move forward together in balance not out of whack like the $750 bull is creating.If people use bulls like him that are more advanced than 90-95% of the breed then u have alienated yourself.If u were to use a less advanced bull than what has been used u will go back not fowards.An unproven bull should only be used as a sire of sons 1 year before he is proven.This will still give balance to the breed because these sons will be 1 year ahead of there brothers not 15-20yrs ahead of there genetics.I remember reading that ai companys give us plenty of choice that is wrong these people have gelded this breed.How many great sires have past us buy with not one son ever proven.These people have wasted a boot full of quality and used a boot full of nothing most times.Any bull that is proven to have massive type or milk should be used as a sire of sons in some format.A bull off the top of my head that was not used as sires of sons i belive.The bull is Hanoverhill Victor a great bull in my eyes from a fantastic pedigree. Inspiration x Threat x Jewel x Elevation x Chief further back there is some Baker Farms Dauntless and Rock River the bulls Bell and Majesty have Dauntless.Why are bulls like him not given a chance of say 10-20 sons or Terrason for that matter.Its a sad fact that genetics do not care about profit and what pays the bills every bull is put here for a reason and should be used.If people out there do not prove sons of everything of merit then u will get what we have today of everything being the same.People can not tell me that these bone heads have for to long have used to much of one and not the other.

Last edited by KINGMAMBO, 25/12/2012, 3:42
25/12/2012, 3:23 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
smous Profile
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Cowtalk Staff

Registered: 11-2003
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Re: Mating on a Snowman?


quote:

KINGMAMBO wrote:
every bull is put here for a reason and should be used.



 emoticon emoticon emoticonOH:

---
WWS-SA
25/12/2012, 7:47 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
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Ex97
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Re: Mating on a Snowman?


Every bull like Black Jack or Skybuck should be used as a sire of sons.I dont belive they were used as sires of sons what a waste of Petes great work.I know people want milk but please why waste these great bred bulls like these.These people test Mason sons by the bucket full and all they got was Terrason.When i was looking at Terrason as a young bull i was very pleased with him.I bought 60 straws @ £5 each as young sire why was this great type bull not used once.What are these peoples malfunction do they not belive the show ring would benefit from a Terrason line or similar.Thats why i am thinking i will have to use my own bulls.These people think they will tell me what i will use and give me no option to use what they have.If i get in a position to have my own herd then i will use my own bulls.I am not going to drink out of there cup no more they have not even tried to use these bulls what a waste of blood because of there pathetic tunnel vision of the breed.
I have found one Terrason bull that was tested at Alta fair play to that stud for giving him a chance.

Last edited by KINGMAMBO, 25/12/2012, 10:09
25/12/2012, 10:02 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
KINGMAMBO Profile
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Ex97
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Re: Mating on a Snowman?


I forgot about Lheros he was by Mason my mistake.
25/12/2012, 11:55 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 
errolston Profile
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Ex 97 2E

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Re: Mating on a Snowman?


I flushed my Freddie to AltaOak and got 10 grade 1's and 3 grade 2's.

I already have a couple of Epic heifer calves on the ground at home. I quite like them. I heard that Epic calves were quite nice. What do other people think of their's?

The Freddie was scored GP83(2yr) by the head classifier last week. He liked her but said she needed more maturity for VG.

I plan to flush her another couple of times. Who would be the hot hot genomic bull this week? He needs to be available on the market!!

Last edited by errolston, 22/4/2013, 6:08
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EX90

Registered: 03-2013
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Re: Mating on a Snowman?


You are so wright Kingmambo. BlackJack and Skybuck.... I´m using BlackJack these days again. :-)

There are so many great bulls that weren´t used as Sires of sons. Big mistake. Only because they don´t have numbers. Every Jumpingbull with such a sire as Blackjack, Red Marker, Broker, Stardust, Linjet...will be better and is more useful as all the bulls in the top genomic list!!

It gives me the creeps - Thinking of these bulls. I´m so happy that I can use some of them today. Because our children will not have this chance anymore. And there are no bulls like them comming again.

Why people use sires from GP cows and pedigrees picked with average cows?

Why AI´s test sires from matings that are only made because S and MGS have been on top of a list?

Why there are so many pedigrees destroyd over the years? There have been great foundation cows with sires as Sheik, Mattador, Found Matt, Elevation, Starbuck...and than they got breed with horrible thinks?

Why there are only a few bulls tested out of old cows and old sires? Only if she won Madison there is a chance to get a bull in Ai´s Frosty(Fremont), Paradise(Promotion), Tamara(Tornado), Alicia(Affirmed). AI´s :Thats good and please keep at least that.

We had and have so many great cows out there with no numbers but with great pedigrees and exterieur. But they get less and less every day.

To the question Mating on Snowman:

this sounds to me the same thing. Outside was a good bull, Goldwyn not so good as outside - but it can work on a typical outside. But why Snowman - no idea how you get out if this.
You will always have snowman in this pedigree.

I would use Bradnick, Defiant, Sid, Windbrook... if you whant to use actual bulls.
22/4/2013, 8:03 Link to this post PM via Email   PM via Forum
 


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